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Live
PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Arms warrior here, looking for some help.
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Post by
213330
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
213330
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Uricidea
I am, and advocate being, hit capped. Much of the quest/dungeon loot available supplies plenty of opportunity to reach the cap for Hit. The discussion here has been about Expertise alone.
The question to me is: How often does a mob actually dodge? Apparently it's up to 6.5% of the time (statistically that doesn't mean I will lose 6.5% of my DPS, it means that I have a 6.5% chance to be dodged each swing) . So, can a low chance to be dodged be mitigated by the Overpower proc. (basically a white swing)? I tend to think so, not removed or bettered, Just mitigated. I don't argue that in the best of all worlds never missing, or being Dodged/Parried is not the optimum, but at 200 level gear what is optimal. And what kind of gear would a new level 80 warrior have?
My idea is; that rather than scraping together the small amount of Expertise available through 'Chants, I am focusing on a larger chance to Crit, (I have only reached ~28% unbuffed in Battle Stance). Hopefully when I get access to better gear my priority will change, and my place with the rest of the warrior world will improve. Right now I have found improvement to my DPS by increasing my chance to Crit. and I felt it was an option for others in my position.
With my current prioritization of attacks I would always opt for an Execute over and Overpower. So the two attacks overlapping is not an issue, if I understand you correctly.
Blizzard does not grant access to its' code. All of the numbers we throw around are derived. Someones model of what is going on is being accepted. That was my point about Theory Crafting. Theories are not laws, in science nor WoW.
Post by
213330
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Post by
Uricidea
No one is listening. Support your local dogma. In a perfect WoW: Expertise to Cap is better than Crit, but where does a new Warrior go to get the required amount of Expertise? With all your number crunching, enlighten us.
This is simple. Overpowers mitigate the lack of Expertise, Crit increases my chance to do double my damage. While not being able to get anywhere near Expertise capped, I am going with Crit. It really is a good idea at my level of gear. It has proven to be so. I am not making this up.
It is difficult to outlast 3 or 4 of you guys (all saying the same thing) but , it was decent advice. I am going to spare everyone another reply. My ass is sore enough.
Post by
213330
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Post by
Uricidea
I apologize for going back on my word, but that condescending last post couldn't be left unanswered. If you really look at what I'm saying, instead of spouting the current vogue, you may notice that I am compensating for the lack of gear I have. Hardly a
"trailblazer"
, I'm just trying to do my best. I am not terribly interested in the Fury threads btw.
So where does Expertise come from then? You haven't answered that question.
Settle this now. Where does a new warrior, or one in level 200 gear, get the 181 to 214 Expertise rating required to reach the 6.5% needed? I am not
"Blatantly ignoring the "dogma"
I am just looking for improvements while I build my gear. You are
"Blatantly ignoring"
my argument. Not all of us can get their hands on Uld25 gear, not now at least.
I have more than scratched it out. I have been running it. Increasing Crit. has been an improvement. I am not ignoring the math. I am offering an option to those of us that haven't acquired the gear with enough Expertise rating to matter.
I swapped 30 Expertise rating (Gloves & Wrists) for 74 attack power, and have started to get a crit. chance of around 30% when buffed (still pretty low by all accounts). Strength is an important stat, and I don;t think I have short-changed myself in that regard (I have +765 strength for a total of 945, and an attack power of 3274). I am looking for the best balance I can find.
Post by
Porcell
Settle this now. Where does a new warrior, or one in level 200 gear, get the 181 to 214 Expertise rating required to reach the 6.5% needed? I am not
"Blatantly ignoring the "dogma"
I am just looking for improvements while I build my gear. You are
"Blatantly ignoring"
my argument. Not all of us can get their hands on Uld25 gear, not now at least.
I'm with you up to this point. If you don't have access to the expertise rating required to get to the dodge cap, that's fine. No one is beating you up because of it. However:
I have more than scratched it out. I have been running it. Increasing Crit. has been an improvement.
You say "increasing crit." How are you increasing it? Gems? It can't be with Enchants, because except for boots I'm pretty sure there aren't any crit enchants (unless you are foolishly enchanting Agility everywhere).
Read what we are saying. Expertise gives you more of a DPS increase than Crit (if under Expertise dodge cap). That's all we are saying. If you say otherwise, you are wrong. That's all there is to it. All of this "my extra crit helps mitigate the damage loss from having my attacks dodged" is just self-rationalizing BS. I won't argue that critting more is good, but I will argue that it is WAY WAY WAY better to not miss in the first place.
And going back a page briefly:
the first thing I'd ask them is "are you hit/expertise capped?" If you're not hitting, you're not maximizing your DPS... bottom line.
this is by far one of the dumbest opinions about arms and warrior this class in general.
i totally respect this poster's freedom of speech, but that doesnt mean his opinion is correct or anywhere near truth about warriors.
This is complete truth. For ANY DPS class, the MOST important stat your hit ratings and your expertise (for melee). If you are not hitting, you are not doing damage. It doesn't matter if you have 40, 50, 60% crit if you are missing 10% or more of your attacks.
Back to Uricidea. I think the reason you are getting so much flack here is because you seem to be saying that crit rating will make up for (or is somehow better than) expertise. If that's not what you are saying, then sorry...
Post by
Porcell
Meh, whatever, do what you want to do...
Post by
213330
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Uricidea
One more time. I have been saying that an Overpower proc'd from a dodge helps mitigate the damage loss due to an uncapped Expertise. I also mentioned that getting a higher crit chance has improved my DPS. Why does this get so much energy? My approach is more about making due with what you have than getting bogged down in the unobtainable optimal.
The list of gear supplied is the 1st constructive reply to my argument. 1 maybe 2 of those items would improve my position, but all of those items could help the OP considerably. When you are in early raid, or pre-raid gear your list illustrates how difficult it can be to get Exp. capped.
You found 5 items for level 80, very nice, but on closer inspection the gear looks too full of Stam to be suitable for DPS. The itemization seems ambiguous, but I feel they lean towards Tanking gear. The only 200 level pieces are Belts, and you can't wear two at one time (it's the same belt in Alliance and Horde guise).
I don;t want to seen dogmatic in my own way. I would just like to point out that priorities shift as you progress. The Op and I are in similar positions. We are both getting our Raid-selves in order. By now we all know that Exp > Crit, but if Expertise is not available then maybe boosting your Crit can be of some advantage.
Post by
378468
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213330
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376318
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213330
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Post by
Rubendesmet619
Armswarrior is easy, especiely in lowgear as you don't have to care about armor penetration(not enough avaible yet).
1) Get hitcapped
2) Get expertisecapped
3) Make sure you have at least 30%crit in battle stance
4)gem/enchant for strength/AP accordingly.
rend>execute>mortal strike>OP>slam>heroic strike in high rage situations
rend>execute>OP>slam>MS>heroic strike in low rage situations.
When target is at 20% rend>OP>execute.
Strength is twice as valuable to crit so gemming/enchanting for crit is retarded. expertise below soft-expertisecap is a little bit better then strength.
These are fact people. Stop arguing about stupid stuf like "gemming crit makes up for the missed atacks bull%^&*"
You wanne be a special joe, go ahead but please, don't tell stuf like that to sombody looking for advice "roll eyes.
Once you get around 30% ArP from gear you CAN regem ArP, although I have 33% atm and stil using Strength as I wanne respec fury later on and don't wanne regem everything.(got a t8pants, IC boots and a Ulduar25 ring for that in bank already, just need a aesir's edge from Hardmode XT10)
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