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3.1 Lifebloom and Restoration Changes
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Post by
bsvictor
Druid
Restoration
Lifebloom now let the Druid regains half the cost of the spell when Lifebloom completes its duration or is dispelled.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/
Did they remove the doubled mana cost or they just forgot to add that? Anyone on the PTR to answer that?
Post by
ljudsnubbe
I mostly play dps-druid so Im not really affected by this change (at least not yet, dual-specc inc), and the healing Ive done so far is only in 5-mans so I have no raid-healing experiance, but this is my point of view:
Recently blizzard has done many changes to stop players from being able to fill our raid roll by just pressing one button over and over again in every single situation.
They have removed the Warlock Shadowbolt-spam-build, and they have put an cooldown of Circle of Healing to prevent priests from CoH-spamhealing. There are more examples, and now its the druids turn (many other classes will probably be changed soon as well, including pallas and shamans, just wait).
The changes coming to LB will now force druidhealers to actually use the rest of the spells in your arsenal, and to think a little. Dont complain about being forced to heal as a palla, because you are not. Druids still have the most powerfull HoTs in the game, and more HoTs then any other class, most druid just dont use them because its to easy to just LB-roll.
The problem with LB-rolling is that it waists a large bit of the spell. Instead of applying 3 stacks and refreshing it (win of mana, but waisting the bloom), just put one LB on the target and let it bloom and then put a new LB on, and repeat. Together with Rejuvenation and Regrowth (start using it as a HoT!) the amount of healing done will probably be the same, just not as steady as it has been, and a bit more complicated to pull of (but still not very difficult). This of course prevents druids from LB-rolling on multiple targets, but honestly, dont you think it has been somewhat overpowered and just to easy? You will have a bit worse raidhealing, true, but start thowing you other hots on raidmembers as well and you should be fine. You still got a great raidhealingspell in Wild Growth, dont forget that, and if your are in real trouble add Tranquillity (I know, enormous CD, but just save it for the bad bad occations).
One complaint Ive read about here is about the size of the bloom depending on how many LB-stacks you currently have on the target. 3 LB = x3 the amount of the bloom. How can this be a bad thing? "Most of it will be overhealing" many sais... just dont put 3 full stacks of it then. If you overheal with the bloom you have put to many stacks on = played bad. Dont complaine about overhealing, learn how to use the bloom instead.
For a long time many druids have compained about not being able to MT-heal and having to bad bursthealing, but now you will. The changes of the spell gives druid the potential of being (one of?) the best bursthealer in the entire game! When you know bit %^&* is incoming (and a good healer do), apply 3 full stacks of LB with good timing, then time a Regrowth or healing Touch to hit the target as the LB bloom, followed by a swiftmend, and you have some really imba bursthealing.
I understand why blizzard is making this change, and really, its a good thing for tree-healers.
Druids will not be pallahealers, far from it. The gamestyle will still be "keep the HoTs up", but it will not be just one kind of HoT, and now you can adapt one of them to do some really freaking good bursthealing.
Post by
303152
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Celdhyrean
They wanted Druids to roll LB on tanks, now they don't. They purposely changed how the LB and bloom itself works to force this unwanted change on Druids.No, they still want/accept us rolling LB. What they don't want is us rolling it on 4 tanks (and throwing additional heals on the side).
Regarding "unwanted", of course it's unwanted for druids, it's a nerf. That's not an argument.
Post by
170154
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
Someone didnt like my post!
1. This isn't the first nerf to LB or druid healing in WOLK. It is not 'OUR TURN'.
2. No Druid spams only LB. Well, no druid that knows anything about healing.
3. The problem with LB is NOT that 'WASTED BLOOM'. They wanted Druids to roll LB on tanks, now they don't. They purposely changed how the LB and bloom itself works to force this unwanted change on Druids.
4. "Too many stacks = bad player" because of overhealing? WTF? Really? You can know 9 to 10 seconds in the future how much healing a tank is going to need? Other than 1 or 2 gimik fights this is not possible. You can perdict spikes, other healers deaths, adds, ect.. 9 second into the future? Glad someone can use that UBBER BLOOM. Guess the rest of us just hope it isn't completely wasted as OverHealing.
5. Druids neve complained about MT healing. IT WAS ONE OF OUR MAIN RAID ROLES!
6. Burst healing? Really? So I put rejuv, LB, and regrowth up and then use my burst Nourish. Oh wait while I was Casting those HOTs to get the bonus from Nourish, my target died. WOOT nice BURST
Icebeard, Im not new to raidhealing. Ive played priest for several years both as healer and dps, and I know quite a bit about raidhealing, Im just not as used to it on my druid as I am on my priest. I do quite good healing 5mans, and have talked to our (many) tree-healers in the guild (and in pugs) and even though I have to admit Im not 100% in to the (raiding) druid playstyle, Im pretty well aware of the oppinions of the upcoming changes amongst the majority of you, and I just think druids make an unnessacary big fuzz about this.
And I really think you are wrong on most of your comments:
1. I never said it was the first change to LB. Blizzard is changing/balancing mostes class all the time. Its true the druid playstayle will change, but it will not be ruined
2. Most druid dont just spam LB, true, but it has been a little to convenient way of doing great healing to many people at ones. It has taken a to large part of many (not all) druids healing.
3. Ok good point actually. Lb-rolls on tanks will not be mana-efficient anough. But with changed playstyle it wont affect the amount of healing done, but ye, if blizz still wanted druids to roll LB on tanks the changes wont make it possible anymore, so fail on blizz if that is the case.
4. Yep. Overhealing = bad played (IMO). And yes, in many fights you know when peakdamage will come quite long before it happenes. This way to play is of course not usuable on raidmembers getting hit by aoe & mobs etc, but there are other ways to heal that kind of damage isnt there?
5. Yep, a whole lot of druid comlains about being weak MT-healers (compared to other classes).
6. I dont think you really understood me. When you know big trouble is incoming (see nr4), stack 3 LB and time it so it goes of the second the burstdamage comes, and reapply rejuv and the regrowth-hot before the peakdamage, and time a big heal (a new regrowth for increased crit, hoping to trigger Living seed?) at the exact time the LB blooms, followed by Nourish/Swiftmende (or any fast spell of your choice), and you will have great bursthealing. I cant really see any tank dying from the damage they take while you apply the hots (wich you should have on him anyway).
Sure, this tactic its only doable when singletarget-healing and when you know burstdamage comes soon, but being able to do so is a luxary that most other healers dont have. And I wasnt talking about Nourish as being a good bursthealing tool, I was talking about when timeing the blooms right LB can be a very powerfull thing.
What I meant by writing my previous post, but that maybe needs a little clairity, is that I think druids is complaining to much about the bad changes and missing the good changes completly. Alot of people also complain about being forced to "pallaheal", wich Im sure will not be true. Even though tree-healing will change with the incoming changes, it wont be broken.
Palla-healing will be as unefficient for a druid as keeping LB-rolling, but druids will still have a very uniqe style of healing. Keeping different hots up (all with different durations) on multiple targets, while not being allowed to just reapply hots (well, only LB actually) before they run out since it will be a waiste of mana, while filling in with other fast heals (nourish/swiftmend?), will be the way to play druidhealer I think, and no other class even remotely heals anything like that. I imagine it will be a bit like playing affliction-warlock or shadowpriest, and that is a very very fun way to play.
Druids (including me, as I often have to respecc between balance/restro. Dualspecc ftw) will just have to adapt the playstyle to the changes, like every other class have to do when blizzard makes changes.
Ok, keep thowing ^&*! at me! I dont wanna troll this thread but I just dont agree on the "oh @#$% we are doomed"-oppinion that the majority of you currently seems to have. But plz comment my oppinions, maybe its just me being to optimistic ;-)
%^&* this was a long post...
Post by
greven
We are not doomed, no one said we are. We are discussing the change in perspective by Blizzard. It's clear that they don't want us to roll Lifebloom on multiple targets, and even on 1 Single Target refreshing Lifebloom without letting it bloom is too penalizing.
We are also discussing the stupid bloom that comes now with it.
I tested it on PTRs. I'm sitting at 2040 Healing and Self Buffed I crit 3xLifebloom for 14K... 14000 Crits on moments you don't know the target might need even 1 K healing, it's stupid, it's too much overhealing.
Since they are changing Lifebloom I propose 3 things:
1. Let us control the Bloom in some way.
2. Reduce the Bloom to around how it was before, or a bit more but increase the ticks of the LB Hot.
3. Give us a way to get something back from the Overhealing of the Lifebloom.
By the way if you are on the PTRs use the suggestion to Blizzard in Game. I did.
Post by
Kaitain
3. Give us a way to get something back from the Overhealing of the Lifebloom.
Even though I am not getting at all reactionary about this LB Rolling nerf, I quite like this idea. For instance you get half the mana back when it blooms as Blizz already has in place, but the remaining half of the total mana cost (i.e. including mana cost of all the stacks) is returned by the % of the bloom that overheals. So if your LB stack doesn't overheal at all, it will cost you some mana, but if the bloom is 100% overheal you get most of the mana back.
As an anecdotal aside, I never really roll multiple LB stacks when I am healing and always do extremely well on the healing meter and fulfil my assigned role. I don't roll multiple LBs because I don't like locking out that many GCDs and I like using
all
my spells. I healed from Kara to Sunwell that way and it always served me well. I was talking to a resto in my guild yesterday about this (i am balance atm). He is a prodigious LB roller and is ofc QQing his head off about this. I pointed out to him that when we are both healing we do about the same on the meter and both have no trouble keeping our assigned people up, yet we heal totally differently. For example in a Naxx clear the other week he used Swiftmend 21 times in the night. I used it 194 times.
I appreciate it isn't nice to have a playstyle change forced upon you, but don't panic, restos will still be awesome raid and tank healers, and Blizz actually have a very good reason for nerfing LB rolling.
Post by
razzem
I'm afraid they are going to nerf Nourish soon. With all the love it's gotten from talents (especially the new imp Regrowth and Living seed combo), glyphs, and tier bonuses, I see myself getting way more bang for my buck from it.
It might just be OP with the cheapness (14.5% base mana) of how much it costs and the +bonus it receives from so many different sources now... 6% per hot effect glyphed (max 4), another 5% per hot from the tier bonus (max 4). Which means 24% more from the glyph and 20% more from the tier bonus. Stack that with the 25% crit chance (+4% more crit from the balance talent... ie, it's a better crit chance than Regrowth now) especially in conjunction with Living Seed (30% of that crit heal) and you've got some seriously raw healing power.
Post by
greven
You will be replacing Tier 7 pretty quick... so I don't see that happening. Nourish as it is allready has too many IFs to work properly. If you don't have HoTs on the Target Regrowth is still superior unless you are raiding healing and if you are Rejuv does the job, because of the target is too low for you to wait for rejuv ticks Having to waste 1 GCD and cast Nourish on it it's too slow for a fast heal anyway, so might also cast Regrowth anyway.
So I don't see Nourish being nerfed if anything it still needs a bit of improvement to convince most of us. It's not bad, it's not great, it's an Ok spell that fill some rolls but need a lot of "tweaking" to be fully operational (HoTs ,Glyphs, Tier Bonus).
About my idea of something returning with the LB Overhealing I think that is probably the best idea. I like your idea of % of Mana returned with the % of Overhealing. That way it wouldn't be so penalizing like it is now, we would get something from an uncontrolable "Burst" heal and still it would shift from the current roll on multiple targets most effective heal in the game. :)
Post by
ljudsnubbe
1. Let us control the Bloom in some way.
2. Reduce the Bloom to around how it was before, or a bit more but increase the ticks of the LB Hot.
3. Give us a way to get something back from the Overhealing of the Lifebloom.
1. Good idea
2. This will make us able to keep using LB as we currently do, and thats what blizz wanna change. But sure, it would be great
3. Priest have a simular ability, and though I admit its better then nothing, its not as good as you whould think.
And again: dont complaining about the overhealing done if you let 3 LB bloom on a target with high HP, just dont put 3 stacks on all target all the time, adapt the amount of stacks to the situation.
"Normal" way of using it: put 1 LB on and let it bloom (actually using the whole spell), repeat.
"Big damage incoming": 3 LB good timed, then biiiig bloom.
Post by
233835
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
greven
I know this may be a stupid question, but if you click off a lifebloom does the bloom effect proc or no?
Don't think so as it doesn't count as dispell.
Post by
261996
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ljudsnubbe
I mostly play dps-druid so Im not really affected by this change (at least not yet, dual-specc inc), and the healing Ive done so far is only in 5-mans so I have no raid-healing experiance, but this is my point of view:
blah blah blah
I am not one to normally bash a post, but you do not understand Resto, at all...Why are you posting about this topic.
I mostly play dps (raid) on my druid, but I still do quite alot of heroicshealing on it and I seems to do quite well, so I think I can post here if I want to. The raidhealing Ive done mostly (but not entirely) comes from playing priest, so I admit Im not the most experianced druidhealer out there. I do however know raidhealing and the encounters we face.
it is not possible to judge most spike damage 10 seconds in advance; therefore there is no healing benefit from rolling > bloom on a tank.
True, most spikedamage maybe not predictable, but some is, and if you dont wanna use the bursthealing 3 stack of LB will provide, dont, but I know I will. Not in all encounters, but in some, and when its useable its gonna be great.
Post by
332547
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Post by
260787
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Post by
303152
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Post by
Celdhyrean
What is the point of a HoT spell, designed to stack, if you CAN'T afford the mana cost to stack it?The target Blizzard is aiming for is for druids to be able to afford to stack it on 1 target. But yes, it will be costly, it will be a decision to do depending on mana, and other parameters (to stack more and do nothing in between, stack less and do more between refreshes, ...).
It's really difficult to be as affirmative as you are ("we won't ever use it stacked again") when we don't really know how all the healing strategies/mana regen will change in 3.1. You can be catastrophic or more optimistic, it doesn't really matter in the end. If you want to do something, go on test realms and test situations (having buffs, a replenish, stack on 1, 2 or 3 people, do other heals between refreshes, don't heal between, ... and try to see how that all plays out.
At the moment we don't have any solid basis (either way to be honest) and i really feel you take this more negatively than it really is (of course it's negative, it's a PvE nerf).
Post by
300376
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