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Rolling on Shards - Prototype System
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90985
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314840
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202987
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297395
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Post by
Sweetscot
Sorry, but that logic has a fallacy. The sole reason a healer is brought to the group is to heal. You don't bring the enchanter in the group just to d/e you bring them to dps/heal/tank but because of their prof you expect them to give something more to the group above and beyond the role for which you've added them to group and for no other benefit to them. Also it is exactly the same with the miner/herber/etc...they would still have the same chance of getting the goods in the same way an enchanter has a chance at getting the shard so again, fallacy in logic(even though personally I don't go with the whole miners/herbers/skinners should put the goods up for /roll.
I'm really confused as to why so many people get up in arms on this. It is WRONG that enchanters are
expected
to perform free service to each and every group they go into. It is also wrong for any enchanter to
expect to get the group goods
because of their profession. Both extremes are wrong in my opinion.
My take, there is nothing wrong with an enchanter simply not advertising their prof or not answering when the ever present "D/E?" question arises if they don't want to d/e goods for the group, and if a group leader checks their armory or checks them for rings and kicks them out then that leader is a greedy a-hole and shouldn't be grouped with anyway as they want FREEBIES at another group members expence. It would also be nice if everyone would recognise that enchanters that do d/e for the group are doing it simply
to be nice
and a thank you to them would be a nice touch but at least not acting like a jerkwad would be ok too.
It is a choice for the enchanter, if they d/e it is because they choose to put cash into the roll winners pocket out of nothing but either a) their own goodwill or b) because the greedy masses will want to persecute them if they don't...now tell me what do you call a group of people who will persecute someone for not giving of their own for no return? I'm not saying that enchanters shouldn't d/e but I do think that the 'because that's the way it's done ffs!' attitude shouldn't have come about in the first place and really needs to go.
I also think that it's ridiculous that people running low level dungeons expect free shard roll too...yes it technically has all the same implications of max level but really...but then thats a whole different rant I will stop myself now :)
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196123
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297395
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297395
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Post by
Carusun
My take on it, as someone still leveling their enchanting, would be to say:
"I'll d/e any BoPs not wanted, but cos I'm still levelling, I want the first shard. I won't roll on the second, but I
will
roll on any after that."
That way, I get the first shard, someone else gets another, and then it's down to 20% chance for each of us for any further shards.
In my opinion, that's fair, as the enchanter gets a shard for disenchanting, but not in an overly skewed way.
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161600
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116020
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Post by
Sweetscot
Also it is exactly the same with the miner/herber/etc...they would still have the same chance of getting the goods in the same way an enchanter has a chance at getting the shard so again, fallacy in logic
No, it is not. This has already been explained.
In a group of 5:
People without mining have a 0% chance of getting a mining node. Therefore, the node has no value to non-miners.
People without enchanting have a 20% chance of getting a BoP, and the BoP has vendor value to non-enchanters.
(Notice that I put BoP,
not
shard. It might help to remember that, technically, you're not rolling on the shard, you're rolling on the BoP - but it might become a shard by the time you get it.)
Why would a miner /roll on ore no one else could have gotten? Statistically, that costs the miner money. If 1 miner in the group, he just went from 100% chance to get the ore, to 20%.
...as they want FREEBIES at another group members expence.
For the last time, it costs the enchanter
nothing
. People aren't getting shards as the enchanters
expense
.
A BoP could remain vendor gear, or it could be turned into a shard and given to the person
who would have gotten the gear anyway.
Either way, it doesn't change the value of a BoP to the enchanter. The enchanter has 20% chance to get the BoP regardless if he is going to DE the gear others would have won.
The miner's odds would go from 100% to 20% (if only 1 miner)
The enchanter's odds go from 20% to 20%
Got it?
First off, yea yea I misspelled expense so kill me...
No because you are going on the assumption that there will always be a mine inside the instance, that is the difference between mines inside an instance and bosses, there will always be a set number of bosses but not mines. Therefore the miners chances went from 0% to 20% and his chances at getting ores inside an instance didn't cost him anything if they go from 100% to 0% from some ore eating glitch as ore unlike bop's has only a relative value on the ah whereas bops have a set vendor price.
Also please note that I said I do not support the idea of ores/skins being put to a /roll.
Post by
202987
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297395
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Post by
Wildhorn
If you are too lazy to take 30 seconds to DE
It's not about how much it takes to D/E, it's about how long it takes you to be able to do so. Alchemists/Blacksmiths/Leatherworkers/Tailors/Jewelcrafters/Inscribers charge for their services. Why shouldn't enchanters do so? Is D/Eing not considered a service?
Then what about this warrior blacksmith charge you for using his crafted axe to kill stuff? Is not that a service?
Enchanting is one of the cheapest and easiest profession to level up to a point you can DE everything. You already charge for enchanting, that is the thing you can compare with other profession.
Post by
slasher0161
As stated above. To learn ALL our recipees we need 114 dream shards. 114 is a L-O-T.
Now take a step back here to the concept of a guild enchanter, our guild has 2 and we do guild runs to build up a shard stash (atm i think our chanter has something about 2 32slot bags full of mats) basicly just run some easy instances and shard everything that isn't needed (almost everything) and then get them to bank it. And please don't feed off the rubbish about enchanting being expensive to get all the patterns. Look at engineers shelling out for the chopper pattern alone. The most tip an engineer usually gets for making that is a few hundred gold tip (if your lucky).
summarising the above wall of text cry less guild run more.
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202987
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297395
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202987
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