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To the few out there who keep saying raid bosses and dungeons are to easy
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Post by
71095
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Post by
225126
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Post by
MrFredII
Not everyone is a nerd and have time to play 10 hours per day. In TBC, not everyone had time to:
- Level to 70.
- Do normal instances and obtain gear.
- Farm reputation.
- Do heroics and obtain gear.
- Do T4 instances and obtain gear.
- Do T5 instances and obtain gear.
- Finally, do T6 instances.
And of course not everyone has time to do 3-4 hours raids every night. There are people that play occasionally but still want to enjoy the game and do some raids sometimes. So, I absolutely AGREE to easier and faster instances. Of course not TOO easy and fast, but at least more than TBC or pre-TBC.
And please don't say that the pre-TBC and TBC instances was made for better player, because there are A LOT of full T6 people that are completely noob. A few months ago I joined a guild and one of the officer (level 70 full epic warrior) didn't know how Enchanting works. He thought that you can do the same enchant (for example 18 stamina on shield) on every item (not only shield but also neck, rings, chest, ...). I immediately left the guild. This is just an example of course, but I have seen A LOT of people like him.
As has been said repeatedly - all Classic and tBC content has been cleared by organized groups of people playing as little as 6-8 hours a
WEEK
. Over the 2 years or so that tBC was out if you played 8 hours a week you would have had 800+ hours of playing time. More than enough time to accomplish everything on your list provided that you used your time wisely.
Seeing earlier content required only commitment, organization, and a like minded group of people. Like I said. While we take raiding seriously, show up on time and ready, with our A game and a willingness to wipe if needed to learn fights, none of us are hardcore. All of us have lives and jobs. None of us can play 10 hours a day or raid every night.
lIf you are crying that the game isn't a challenge for your hard core raiding guild anymore, then why don't you go out and PuG some content with some casual players and help THEM get to see some of the end game, or another option is to try a new spec. Don't do the cookie cutter raid spec for your class, mix it up and try the raids using other skills.
If you read my post you'll notice that we did PUG slots as people could not make all three evenings. Over the 3 nights in question we played maybe 10 hours. That certanly meets no ones definition of "hardcore".
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71095
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252035
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108550
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146856
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178665
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Post by
Ryzzo
I'm guessing all these proud "pro" and "hardcore" kids have done 3-drake sartharion, or even 2-drake?
Post by
Aaris
Well it is easy in WotLK but why.
First of all it is not about t6 / sunwell gear. i regreted that i did not change my gear till first 10 men naxx. my gear was quite good but, new items has ( even blues) more stats.
Anyways.. it is easy when you know raiding. raiding is hard, organizing hard if you did not raid enough.
BC was really really hard. even we could not step into heroics when we ding 70. we had to be reverred with relevant dungeon factions.
we had to do chain quests to go raid dungeons.
enchanting mats were hard to find. They were extremely expensive. requires too many primals etc. and primals drop rate was ridiculous. check this out for example :p
Enchant Cloak - Subtlety
even
nether vortex
es was BoP. :p
But now it is really easy. reputation, gearing, farming etc.
Waiting for Ulduar for more wipes :))
Post by
108550
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Post by
Skullhawk13
sure lets make it a challenge for 10% of the players and near impossible for the rest
These conversations are always so funny. The hardcore players are QQing about how the game isn't challenging to them, and the casuals are baulking at the idea that an aspect of the game won't be available to someone who plays 6 hours a week versus someone who plays 60.
Attn Casuals:
No one is saying Blizz should ignore a majority of their player base and make most epics and instances impossible for you to ever experience. Don't be stupid. What is wrong with people who have more time wanting an exciting challenge just like you want one? You all want some aspect of the game to hold your attention once you reach 80 and give you a reason to keep logging on. What's wrong with hardcore players wanting the same thing? Do you have to trash them?
Hardcore players aren't going around telling Blizzard to ignore you all and make it impossible for you to ever get good gear or walk into an exciting instance, but I see so many casuals wanting Blizzard to nerf all encounters to their level, robbing all hardcore players of an exciting gaming experience. I see casuals going to Blizzard wanting to be handed shiny, purple gear that some people spent months striving to get.
Blizz has made plenty of instances and epics available to the most casual of casual players. Why are you not satisfied with this? Why do you have to demand that you receive exactly the same rewards for 1 hour of your time that someone else had earned for 8 hours of their time? Who is being selfish and spoiled?
--Proud hardcore player who clears all wotlk raid content in less than 8 hours a week. Yes, I have a life. Learn to manage your time.
Um.... I belilve the correct repsonse to this is they are lazy and don't care. But you make a great point to people whom have logic.
Post by
259538
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Post by
MrFredII
Over the weekend I and a couple of friends PuG Heroic Obsidian Sanctum. Once we completed that we organized a PuG (about 50% guildies) for the 10 man version. In the 25 man with half the raid first timers we wiped on Sartharion twice. In the 10 man we wiped on him once. The 25 man was a true pug with at least 10 different guilds present and an IOP range from 1100 to 50. In the 10 man only 1 person had never been there before. If anything the 10 man was a bit more demanding than the 25. In both cases we cleared all the sub bosses before we killed Sartharion. But all in all it was mind numbingly easy. Runs lasted well under 40 minutes. There was some discussion about leaving some of the drakes up for the 25 man, but people just wanted their badges and to roll on the gloves. I imagine that it will only be full guild runs that will leave the drakes up, pugs seem to treat these like low end heroics in BC. "How quick can I get 4 badges and an epic?"
So much promise, so little pay off.
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225126
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283608
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137460
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78077
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Post by
MrFredII
In the vast majority of cases, measured against the skills required for the aspects of the game that they pursue, people become better players the more that they play. This means that as the mean playing time of the player base as a whole increases people will become bored unless faced with new and or greater challenges. The need for new challenges in PvP tends to be met by player base itself. In PvE however this need can only be met by the game developers.
Since its inception WoW's player base has not only grown at a tremendous rate it has also done so by pulling in a vast number of people who have never before played a MMORP. Thus despite the playing time of those of us who started in classic the mean playing time of the player base has continually been decreasing. As such the skill or sophistication of the "average" player is below that of classic or tBC. As in all things, eventually the growth rate of the player base becomes unsustainable. Perhaps Blizzard can double the player base again over the next year or two, but the odds are against it.
Note: I am not saying that the player base will not continue to grow, only that its growth will slow.
By making the raids trivial to pug, Blizzard has ensured that anyone who wants to get through Naxx will be able to do so. In six or so months, the vast majority of the current player base whether "casual" or "hardcore" will find the current end game boringly easy. Once they have farmed their badges and some of their gear they will lose interest. To prevent this Blizzard will release new content prior to this point. Were I a betting man I would bet by Feb. 2009.
Blizzards challenge will be to tune the new raid(s), so that they are challenging enough to occupy the now more experienced player base with out being to great a leap from the trivial raids we have now. By placing the current bar so low, Blizzard has made positioning the new content much more difficult.
In other words, don't expect the next raid to be dramatically more difficult. It will be harder but, Blizzard is almost forced to keep it puggable.
Post by
VirgilTheMage
The most amusing thing is, the game wasn't anywhere near this casual or ridiculously easy for a good three years and it got along fine, superbly, amazingly by mmorpg standards. Now that Blizzard have attracted such a huge crowd they are obsessed with keeping the money flowing and thus will do almost anything to appease their community, as has been evidenced many times.
I agree with the topic creator, the game is far too easy and thus has far too little depth. And yes, I am a casual player, I get to play a couple of hours in the evening four or five nights a week. Normal dungeons are about right as they are now, but heroics are just laughable...can't comment on raids as I've not been able to do them and probably won't ever for time reasons.
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