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Why do people expect to roll for shards?
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Post by
91278
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Supremacy
If someone armories (that doesn't look right) you and demands that you disenchant? They're just being an ass, and you have every right to say so.
Problem: If you're an Enchanter, likely you'll have ring enchants. Is one an ass if one *inspects* you and notices that?
Ring enchants start at...370, or so? Near the old cap? Prior to Wrath, at that point, the act of leveling wasn't that big an issue. Not saying that it was easy to level, just saying that with 5 points left, you weren't at the desperate for shards and dust and essence stage.
But being inspected? No. That's going to happen. And you might be asked if you can disenchant for the run. You have a few options at that point, but most of them aren't going to reflect all that well on your character.
You could agree, or come up with a few different ways to decline. Of course, you'll probably be rebuked. And rightly so. People aren't - if I'm understanding this thread correctly - asking you to disenchant everything. It's the stuff that no one needs, and no one has a use for. A polearm in a group with a mage, priest, warlock, shaman, and druid. It's already gonna be sold, anyway. You may as well help increase the price. It's not like you
can't
roll for it. You still have a chance of getting the shard; it's just, now everyone else has a chance, too.
No matter how you slice it, saying "I won't disenchant for this group" is saying "I won't help anyone else but myself." I mean, you're within your rights, but still. You've got to understand that people would be as mad about that as having a mage decide he wasn't going to give water to the group.
Quoting again, this time from
House
:
"If you keep acting like a jerk, people are gonna start treating you like a jerk."
Teammate
: Man...well, no one can use this item. Hey, friend who we just fought this boss with...guy who we healed for the run, and kept folk off of you. Can you disenchant this, so we all can have an equal chance to benefit from the spoils?
You
: No.
Post by
223780
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Post by
242957
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Post by
bugeye999
I look at it like this. There are two possible scenarios, yours in which everybody rolls greed and if a non-enchanter wins it, then they get it and vendor it, but if the enchanter gets it they de and get a shard. Then there's the original scenarion where the item is disenchanted and a shard is rolled for.
In scenario 1, a non-enchanter has a 1/5 chance of winning an item to vendor while the enchanter has a 1/5 chance of getting a shard. In scenario 2, a non-enchanter has a 1/5 chance to win a shard which sells for a lot more on the AH than they would get vendoring, while the enchanter still has a 1/5 chance of getting a shard. The odds are the same for the enchanter no matter which scenario it is, but things are much better for the non-enchanters.
Post by
252924
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Post by
166425
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Post by
Eldmor
I think what it boils down to is that Enchanters have to use shards to
purchase
enchants now. Every other profession can use gold to learn their recipes and sell mats to earn gold for them, but an enchanter usually only gets items that yield shards in an instance. With 4 other people looking to roll on your "enchanting gold," it cripples their ability to supply new enchants to the community and max their profession.
My opinion, let an enchanter keep them unless they're maxed.
Post by
91079
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Post by
ignis86
The only way to drive the point home is for everyone to start asking miners and skinners to random skins and ores, that too is currency as its sellable in AH. The higher lvl skins and ores especially will net some good gold.
wrong...
skin is the ONLY thing you get from skinning
as ore is from mining (unless smelt or is part of mining and not bs i dont remember)
enchanters dont just get the ability to de items.. that profession is the same one that can enchant things and craft them... chanters lvld one proff to benefit from it... i had to lvl two...
a way to compare DEing to Skinning in any way is someone asking me to turn leather into heavier leather for them... which i always do with no qualms for anyone who asks me to.
BS's and LW-ers HAVE to have two professions to make anything outside of buying mats.... Chanters can DE quest rewards and drops and cheaply bought ah junk. i know, i made LOTS of money doing just that on my alt...
Enchanters only use THAT profession...
need mats? use ENCHANTING to DE stuff....
when they add a *break leather armor down into some lwing mats ability* then you can compare it to DEing... same goes with Blacksmithing. or i would be just fine with them making Disenchanting into its own separate profession... that would lvl the field too :p
should rogues never open any lock for you, or mages make you water? no, it comes with the turf and is generally accepted as part of the game.
dont de out of greed/spite? ill be more than fine adding you to the *dont tank or dps for this person* list.
*edit*
OH and DONT try and give me that garbage that Enchanting is harder/more $$ to lvl than i.e. leatherworking... ive done BOTH proffessions and it is by farther easier, faster, and cheaper to lvl enchanting... enchants are in WAY higher demand so more ppl bring their own mats... in fact i would say most people do... i lvld chanting mostly by posting in trade their mats my skill and getting flooded with tells... leatherworking was in no way as easy/cheap.
I think what it boils down to is that Enchanters have to use shards to
purchase
enchants now. Every other profession can use gold to learn their recipes and sell mats to earn gold for them, but an enchanter usually only gets items that yield shards in an instance.
wrong btw...
purchased with
rare skin
that comes from a SECOND proffession, not even the same one its used in... so i have to buy it or hope i skin it...
and purchased with
HEAVY borean leather
, so it has to be skinned and then combined into the buying cost items...
and every other profession has to have a second profession to get mats :p (as i already mentioned)
(And there still are 0 inscription patterns available from rep / instance drops. Gfg :/ )
QFT and same for leatherworking.
Post by
Cloud8690
Didn't feel like reading through the posts so I don't know what everyone has said. However, I feel that if no one needs the item for an upgrade, then if an enchanter is there to DE it, then it gets DE'd and rolled on by the whole party since everyone worked to kill whoever dropped the item. Now if people roll to vendor it and the enchanter wins, then they can keep the DE'd mats.
However on my server, it's common for people to ask if there is an enchanter in the group for possible DE's. If no one speaks up and you're seen DE'ing items, that just makes you the ass/liar. If you want to use shards to level up your enchanting, grind out your own items to DE.
Post by
248019
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Post by
249143
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Post by
albadia
I still do not understand how people can say that miners/herbalists/skinners have no obligation to share any of their drops with the group whom made those drops possible in the first place.
One of the big differences between enchanting and the rest that many people are missing here is that it is easier for the other proffs. to go outside an instance and gather the mats they need to lvl their skill.
The biggest difference between gather prof's and enchanting is this.
If a group goes into an instance and theres a mining node, and no miner. Who makes money? Nobody. It is common sense that if you are not a miner, you will not be able to benefit from a node that requires mining skill.
In a group without an enchanter, I'm still gonna make 3-20g off of whatever BOP the group ends up greeding on. What does an enchanter *lose* by DEing for the group?
If you, the enchanter, roll greed with the whole group on a BOP item, you have a 20% chance of winning something to DE, and getting a shard. If you, the enchanter, roll need, DE, and the group rolls on it. You still have a 20% chance of getting a shard. But even without your presence I still benefit from the BOP.
Yes, you are doing a courtesy to your group by helping them profit more from unneeded drops but that's your prerogative. If you don't want to, don't bring it up and decline if they ask.
Post by
248019
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Post by
89503
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Post by
dehotz
I look at it like this. There are two possible scenarios, yours in which everybody rolls greed and if a non-enchanter wins it, then they get it and vendor it, but if the enchanter gets it they de and get a shard. Then there's the original scenarion where the item is disenchanted and a shard is rolled for.
In scenario 1, a non-enchanter has a 1/5 chance of winning an item to vendor while the enchanter has a 1/5 chance of getting a shard. In scenario 2, a non-enchanter has a 1/5 chance to win a shard which sells for a lot more on the AH than they would get vendoring, while the enchanter still has a 1/5 chance of getting a shard. The odds are the same for the enchanter no matter which scenario it is, but things are much better for the non-enchanters.
I think Bugeye really sums this up here. There is no loss of opportunity for an enchanter here, they have the exact same chance of getting the shards that they always would. All they would be doing by not de-ing things is screwing over the other players by making them vendor items rather than get a shard which they could auction.
Actually if you think about this they are screwing themselves as well if there goal truly is to level their enchanting. More enchanting mats on the ah would mean cheaper prices for them as they work on leveling.
Seems like the best route would be to have everyone pass on all the items that they don't need and do a simple /roll. Whomever wins the item has the rights to it, if they want to grab it and vendor it they can, if they can disenchant it they can. If there is an enchanter in the party I can't think why you would want them to take it and vendor it rather than letting them know that you'd disenchant it for them. This way you can mention how that mat is needed for the enchant you happen to have that would be good on those new boots they just got off the previous boss. In other words, give them the mats you just de-ed and then try to sell them an enchant that needs those mats + maybe some others.
Post by
229336
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Post by
ignis86
The enchanter gathering profession is tailoring.
you my dear sir... just made one of the dumbest comments i've seen on wowhead... and ive seeon some doozies...
tailoring is NOT a gathering profession in ANY way... it MAKES GEAR... ie a CRAFTING profession... ur basically saying every other crafting profession that makes things you can disenchant is its gathering proffession... but then so are random item drops and quests! wow they get mats from dang near EVERYWHERE! nice! wish i could get mats from quests :(
and Dehotz summoned it up quite well...
Not DEing for their stuff as well as mine means less mats in circulation making mat costs inflate.
general rule of thumb i use is no chanter means roll for vendor and if you got one (or one to use) be kind and don't roll to better give everyone a chance to make back their repair gold.
if we have a chanter its the same deal cept it gets DUSTED before its handed out to everyone *save shards till end and roll at end*
we all had to fight that boss to get that loot giving us all a right to some loot, dusting it first just makes it better for *technically* the servers economy.
think of it like this, if ONLY enchanters items ever got dusted, then there would be NO mats on the AH untill those enchanters max'd their skill... im willing to bet 90% or MORE of the mats on the ah are from NON enchanters knowing friends or just nice enchanters who dusted their boe's...
all these ppl responding saying its their proffession why should i benefit from it make me think of mages who wont make water cause their not a "vending machine", locks who wont use their shards to summon ppl unless in a raid, druids who wont battle res (but im feral i have no mana for ressing), hunters who cant be bothered to trap/MD, or rogues who conveniently didnt raise lockpicking *yet did*
point is, its easy for you to do, in the long run benefits everyone YOURSELF included, and its considered nice... dont do it? *shrug* fine... but im not gonna go out of my way to help you out ever :)
Post by
248019
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