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Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
31-point talent tree N:th version.
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Post by
129046
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Post by
Thror
I think the "Berserk" talent now has a passive part, and an active part. The passive part is the Mangle refresh from Lacerate ticks. A lacerate tick has a 30% chance to refresh your mangle CD all the time. The active part is the actual Berserk ability you get. Check out the skill description, it says the passive part first, and then it says "also grants a usable ability", or something like that. (id have to check the other tab in my browser and hover over it with my mouse which would be so much work!)
Swipe costs 30 rage, huh. Cant judge if that is a lot, or not, you know, Rage is gonna change. Maybe we wont even notice.
Post by
492259
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Post by
Achloryn
Seems to me that the tanking changes to Berserk and the changes to Lacerate seem counterintuitive. Between the reduced bleed damage, and the new "Pulverize" ability, we're not supposed to let Lacerate stay on for long... but if we don't let it stay on, then Berserk won't refresh our Mangle cooldown, and Pulverize will fall off... so we're basically forced to choose between Pulverize falling off, or wasting Berserk... Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, can anyone help clarify?
Post by
129046
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Achloryn
You stack lacerates (up to 3 now), cast pulverize and then instantly start to stack lacerates again. The downtime in lacerate DoT is minimal.
And as Thor said, the lacerate tickis might be passive (not needing the berserk to be active) plus we get the no-CD from berserk's activated part anyway.
So... 7 GCDs dedicated to nothing but lacerate? That doesn't seem like it would work out very well for threat generation.
And i realize you don't necessarily mean lac x3, pulv, lac x3 consecutively like that, but with all the other abilities you have, and maul being on the GCD again, it seems like you'd have a higher priority with some other things that have a higher threat gen modifier (mangle, maul, etc) so that by the time you get 3 stacks built up again, pulverize is about to wear off.
Wow.. I worded that really awkwardly, so I hope what I said made sense.
Post by
129046
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Post by
5200
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Post by
Achloryn
They haven't updated the pulverize talent yet (Still says 2% per stack), so it might get some changes.
Let's assume for a second that Blizz will get everything working as intended. After that let's look at the possible singe target max TPS rotation.
The skill that are in our rotation.
Trash
Thrash
AoE skill, my guess you won't be using this on single target
Swipe
Swipe
AoE skill, my guess you won't be using this on single target
Mangle
Mangle
Guessing it will be used always, so that's 1/4 slots used timewise.
Maul
Maul
Now this one is the big question mark. Didn't Blizz intend maul to be our rage-dump? Assuming it still has the "extra-rage-consumed-to-damage" portion, we won't be using it that often. Let's say once every 6 secs, like mangle. 2/4 slots used.
Lacerate
Lacerate
It will be our filler, like swipe is at the moment.
Pulverize
Pulverize
10 sec (16 sec talented) buff, so we use it evey 16 secs.
In 48 seconds you will have 32 GCD's
3 Pulverize
9 lacerate
8 mangle
8 maul
That's still 4 free GCD. Little leeway to use more mauls or lacerate as fillers if low on rage. Or even some swipes depending the damage it does.
I think it will be just fine
Does the bleed from Thrash stack with the bleed from Lacerate? If so, it seems like you still could use it on single-targets for the extra bleed damage, esp. since A. it's not consumed by Pulverize, and B. it scales with your attack power, so they'll bleed for more as the fight wears on courtesy of Vengeance. Just a thought... (I could be way off, because i'm not in the beta though)
Edit: Forgot to mention this, but I don't see anywhere that Maul has an extra-rage-consumed-to-damage mechanic in it (if i'm understanding you right, you mean it like a warrior's Execute currently, or Ferocious Bite is with Energy currently, yes?). Neither the tooltip you linked, nor the one current on mmo-champion mentions that in the mechanic, but they might be outdated. If it's simply 30 rage, we might be using it more often than we realize, but if it's a rage dump (which would be nice to have, mind you) then yes, we would be using it less often.
Post by
Thror
Achloryn, even though it scales off your attack power, i think it will do less threat than many other single target abilities. Not based on testing, but the design paths Blizzard takes in Cataclysm are pretty clear. As a tank, you have AoE abilities for AoE, and Single Target abilities for Single Target. Look at paladins, they have Hammer and Crusader strike on the same cooldown. Thats pretty much the perfect explantation of the design they do now.
It might be worth to use Thrash to get some minor threat before the boss runs out of your range, like... before Blood Queen Lanathel running off to fly up. You know, so you do a tiny little ammount of threat even when the boss is away. But otherwise... Mangle/Maul/Pulver > Thrash.
Post by
387103
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Post by
129046
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Post by
Heckler
Has it pretty much been decided that FFF will not be a part of the rotation except for the debuff then? I don't see it listed in the 'max TPS' listings above.
Post by
129046
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Post by
Achloryn
Edit: Bear rotation has been always quite though-free, meaning you really didn't have to think anything, just smash the easiest rotation in-game. This brings a bit of complexity, which so far I see as a good thing.
I have to agree with this. I like the idea that our rotation is gonna require a bit more thought instead of mindless X, Y, Z bashing.. Should be fun, and i can't wait to put it into practice.
Post by
Aadramelekh
I officially QQ! Bear rotation
should
be mindless three button mashing.
Because a tank supposedly has some other important things on his/her mind than to pay attention to every ability used. The tank must pay attention to the timing of the boss' special abilities and use survival cooldowns, the tank must also in most cases move the boss around and position it in a very precise manner, the tank must keep an eye on the healers and be aware when the situation gets FUBAR. If the tanking rotation relies on too many interdependent abilities, if one ability is skipped, misses or gets parried, given the fact that most of them have hefty cooldowns, this may spell disaster if the DPS pump too much threat.
They are making the feral DPS rotation 'more forgiving' while trying to make the tanking rotation more complex.
Blergh.
Rawrrwrrrwrrgh!
/end QQ
PS: knowing myself as the hopeless "find-pleasure-in-self-torture" animal that I am, I shall probably end up enjoying paying attention to so many factors when tanking T_T
Post by
Thror
Oh come on Aadra, it won't be that bad. Also, yes, you are right about tanks having to pay attention to a lot of things. But the most important thing a tank has to know is
multitasking
. Same as good tanks now are used to spamming the max-TPS rotation while rotating cooldowns flawlessly, while watching everything that moves and casts, while switching targets, while watching the raid frame, they will learn to do all that AND do the new, somewhat more challenging, max-TPS rotation as well.
(and of course i realize that your post wasn't absolutely serious)
Post by
Tarkeel
Feral
* Lacerate base damage increased by 200%, DoT damage reduced by 200%.
Seems like whoever is writing these notes needs to learn basic percentages. I sincerely hope that lacerate isn't going to start healing your target...I officially QQ! Bear rotation
should
be mindless three button mashing.
Because a tank supposedly has some other important things on his/her mind than to pay attention to every ability used. The tank must pay attention to the timing of the boss' special abilities and use survival cooldowns, the tank must also in most cases move the boss around and position it in a very precise manner, the tank must keep an eye on the healers and be aware when the situation gets FUBAR. If the tanking rotation relies on too many interdependent abilities, if one ability is skipped, misses or gets parried, given the fact that most of them have hefty cooldowns, this may spell disaster if the DPS pump too much threat.
They are making the feral DPS rotation 'more forgiving' while trying to make the tanking rotation more complex.
Blergh.
Rawrrwrrrwrrgh!
/end QQ
PS: knowing myself as the hopeless "find-pleasure-in-self-torture" animal that I am, I shall probably end up enjoying paying attention to so many factors when tanking T_T
Agreed.
The main skill of a tank should be situational awareness, and that's much harder when you have to focus on a hard rotation.
Going to be interesting to try tanking when this hits.
Post by
Thror
Seems like whoever is writing these notes needs to learn basic percentages. I sincerely hope that lacerate isn't going to start healing your target...
I was rather perplexed by the percentage too. Afaik, when you reduce something by 100%, it becomes zero. Blizzards idea seems to differ. It also kinda sounds like the DoT is now gonna tick for 10 damage instead of some 2300. Maybe they meant to say 20%, and slipped an accidental zero in.
Post by
Achloryn
I officially QQ! Bear rotation
should
be mindless three button mashing.
Because a tank supposedly has some other important things on his/her mind than to pay attention to every ability used. The tank must pay attention to the timing of the boss' special abilities and use survival cooldowns, the tank must also in most cases move the boss around and position it in a very precise manner, the tank must keep an eye on the healers and be aware when the situation gets FUBAR. If the tanking rotation relies on too many interdependent abilities, if one ability is skipped, misses or gets parried, given the fact that most of them have hefty cooldowns, this may spell disaster if the DPS pump too much threat.
PS: knowing myself as the hopeless "find-pleasure-in-self-torture" animal that I am, I shall probably end up enjoying paying attention to so many factors when tanking T_T
try playing a prot warrior sometime. They've got a lot more abilities than we have to worry about currently, and still manage to be able to watch everything else successfully. :P We still don't have as many buttons as they do.
Seems like whoever is writing these notes needs to learn basic percentages. I sincerely hope that lacerate isn't going to start healing your target...
Rargh.. I'd never even noticed that. >.>
Also regarding the earlier question about rotations.. Where does Demo shout/roar fit into that? I realize it's not something used for TPS (because generally the TPS of demo shout/roar is crappy), but it can be REALLY important for some bosses even now, so I can only imagine this will be the case in the future as well.
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