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Classic Or Battle for Azeroth

Post by Adamsm

I was Alliance all through Vanilla, and never had a Shaman in our group, but you had a shaman for two reasons, which were: Bloodlust and totems.

I could be wrong Adamsm, but I don't think Shammys got Bloodlust until BC.You are correct there, my bad. Like I said, I was ally only during Vanilla so never experienced shammy's still BC.

Post by fotheringham

Post by Jkpman

Again where is the toxicity you "Vanilla" server guys keep accusing this thread of?
I mean whenever anybody refutes your claims or arguments you guys break out the "insulting" and "toxic" nonsense.

By all means abandon the thread or refuse to defend your quite frankly questionable claims, but at least be honest about it without calling anyone who disagrees with you toxic or insulting.

You are basing virtually your entire argument on the viability of specs in end-game raids. If end-game raids represented 100% of the content then you might actually have a point. But end-game raids do not represent 100% of the content, so your fundamental argument of "each class only has one viable spec" (paraphrased) is null and void.

Straw man argument.
That's not what was said at all, and of course end game is the part of the game most people aspired to play. Anyone with time on their hands can level as any spec but the way the specs were it simply could not be an enjoyable experience for many of those class/spec combos. Leveling for many was broken, I won't say not viable to level but far from optimal or enjoyable and given that once you hit 60 and then found out that class actually wasn't viable in raids or dungeons, respec, hence not viable in my opinion.
You should expect to roll a class and spec and be able to play that through the majority of the content, certainly end game group content, but you couldn't, NOT VIABLE.

blah blah blahblah blah blahLook fellas, I'm not even going to bother to continue responding to your continued insults and trolling. I don't know why you feel compelled to turn threads toxic by behaving in this manner, but be aware that you are accomplishing nothing positive or constructive — so I advise against continuing to behave in such a way. You both think that the only way to play the game is your way and that's just not true. Your 'arguments' are thus irrelevant. Show some respect for your fellow players and leave them in peace to support and play whatever version of the game they want in whatever way they find most enjoyable. Enjoy Battle for Azeroth and I look forward to discussing other topics with you in the future — hopefully on more civil terms.

I don't think anybody here has told you how to play, or tried to force you to change the way you play, obviously people disagree with you because there is a lot to disagree with, again you are trying to argue with people who played vanilla and I think we've all at some point questioned your credibility, and again it may be because the version of the game you play is not legit Vanilla.

And I just want to point out this thread isn't about you or telling people which game to play, You chose to wade in with your opinions, seem upset that anyone has the audacity to disagree or put you straight on a few facts, when essentially I'd like anyone playing the legit vanilla, if and when it comes out, just to do so with a pinch of salt.
If you post things that misrepresent something, of course people are going to call you on it, and a couple of members here who have been here as long as I can remember have corrected you, and you have responded with snark, insults yourself, the very thing you accuse others of, so maybe take your own advice buddy.

I don't know why you feel compelled to turn threads toxic by behaving in this manner, but be aware that you are accomplishing nothing positive or constructive — so I advise against continuing to behave in such a way.

Enjoy "classic" I hope it's the real version and not the bizarre version you currently play/remember.

Post by Adamsm

blah blah blahblah blah blahLook fellas, I'm not even going to bother to continue responding to your continued insults and trolling. I don't know why you feel compelled to turn threads toxic by behaving in this manner, but be aware that you are accomplishing nothing positive or constructive — so I advise against continuing to behave in such a way. You both think that the only way to play the game is your way and that's just not true. Your 'arguments' are thus irrelevant. Show some respect for your fellow players and leave them in peace to support and play whatever version of the game they want in whatever way they find most enjoyable. Enjoy Battle for Azeroth and I look forward to discussing other topics with you in the future — hopefully on more civil terms.

But all we are doing is putting in what happened in Vanilla; there is a lot of bad with the good. We are reminding those who seem to think that Vanilla was perfect that it was anything but. Also, it's not a matter of 'playing the game your way'....again, nothing we've said is untrue for the game in true Vanilla. I'm not saying players can't enjoy Classic, I'm advising them if it's the 'real' Vanilla they are in for a hard time because of the flaws that existed back then.

You can play the game however you want; but in the days of Vanilla, if you weren't doing the proper spec, you'd be kicked; that was a part of the game back then, and it was what the community did.

Look, the easiest way to 'show' that leveling was tedious back in Vanilla is to remember that was the hay day of power leveling services; people paid money so they didn't have to spend months on ends getting to 60, slogging through the grind.

The only person being uncivil here is you fotherginham and the fact that rather then responding to an argument, you just quoted it as 'blah blah blah' feels like a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and saying 'I can't hear you, I can't hear you' because you don't want to hear something that you disagree with it. You are dismissing anything 'negative' about Vanilla and calling it 'untrue, opinions, etc etc' when there hasn't been any lies about what the game was like during the first 2 years; it was a mess. It was still a good game, and still playable, but there were bugs, flaws and other issues that weren't corrected till BC. Again, I don't think you actually were on the true Vanilla servers when it came out, which is why you don't remember what the game itself was like. If all you've been playing are private servers, none of that is accurate to what the game was like back then.

Post by Griffyn2007

I am more excited towards the new expansion Battle for Azeroth.
But... I've started wow in 2007 when TBC came out.
I've never played the game before the burning crusade and I must admit that I'm curious what vanilla is all about.
There are some elements I'm familiar with, like the old talent trees.

I do not exactly know to what extend early TBC is similar to Vanilla.

In TBC:
My first character I created was a Hunter, remembering you had to get a pets loyalty level up (or it could run away!) and that pet levels remained the same level you tamed them at
So, if you were level 70 and tamed a level 10 turtle or something you had to level it all the way to 70 by killing mobs you could do basically on your own.
Also various kinds of ammo. I remember a part of my bank with arrows and bullets.. ow the memories come back a bit.
And weapons training. you had to level unarmed combat and also all weapons you hadn't used before had to be 'leveled'.

I think I will prefere the new expansion but still very curious / looking forward to the classic wow.

Post by Rankkor

... elitist entitled ... condescendingly smug ... you never played vanilla at all ... I think that's what you're upset about ... You're bragging ... you're reminiscing about with those heavy-rose tinted glasses ... I think you're confusing a few things.I don't think the insults were warranted...

Insults? ohhh no no no no.

Sorry dear, but you don't get to play that card. Not after posts like this one:

Welcome to Battle for Azeroth Patch 8.1: Entitled
Joined Channel:
Joined Channel:
Joined Channel:
: anybody else having problems with opening trade windows?
: yeah, new patch breaks trade if you have more than 8,999,999 gold
: that's retarded
: just mail some money to an alt
: no point, all my other alts are gold capped as well
: well, just buy a bunch of overpriced garbage on the AH to get rid of some
: good idea, thanks!
: ok, done. bought a few million g worth of for 10k a stack
: didn't realise it would be so cheap today
: yeah, it's cheap on mondays, more expensive on the weekend
: what are you guys doing with all your spare legendaries? void storage?
: not worth it - just vendor them
: sure?
: you'll get a couple more once raids unlock tomorrow, so yeah
: good point
: or install something like the VendorIt add-on to do it for you - saves a bit of time
: i've already got VendorIt installed... think that's what keeps gold capping me
: there should be an add-on that auto-dumps gold to keep you a couple of million under under the cap
: hey guys, what's the warrior tank rotation for the new raid?
: 1 1 3 1 5 4
: is that the same as the last raid?
: no - it changed - last one was 1 1 2 1 5 3
: oh ffs, I wish Blizz would stop changing things
: its hard enough to tank these things as it is without having to update rotation macros
: you have to click LFR, wait 10 seconds, and the raid itself takes at least 8 minutes
: aint nobody got time for that
: Stormwind is under attack!
: well, at least you don't need to talk to anyone anymore
: lol - yeah, good thing they let tanks mute the whole raid...
: all those tossers wanting to talk tactics and #$%&
: I also like how the healers get auto-kicked now whenever anyone dies
: this ^
: it really pissed me off having to actually move during fights
: you're a healer, so heal or GTFO
: if you can't keep everyone alive then don't queue
: new player, looking for guild
: #$%& off noob
: lol

Pass.

This kind of post implies anyone who plays modern wow, or enjoys modern wow is a retard, and that only "hardcore gamers" thrive on vanilla, and those who do not, are whiny skill-less losers.

After this kind of post, you don't get to play the victim card.

That said, the intent behind my post was to refute your arguments, not to directly make you feel offended. If that was the case, accept my sincere apology, but bear in mind posts like the one you made above, and several others, offend other users, and you don't' seem to mind or care.

You both think that the only way to play the game is your way and that's just not true.

Again, kinda funny because this is the way your posts come across. Particularly the incredibly sardonic and sarcastic post above seems to heavily imply that YOUR way is the only way the game is fun, and its only thanks to "casuals" that the game got "dumbed down" (even though I categorically proved to you how the opposite happened. vanilla bosses had 3 skills each and only one mechanic to worry about, whereas mythic bosses these days have over a dozen skills to master, 80% of all the specs literally pressed two buttons in vanilla, whereas rotations are significantly more complex than that today, and vary a lot depending on talents chosen).

And if you're talking about end-game content NOT being the only thing to do in the game, what else was there in vanilla? Leveling in and on itself is not a goal, its a means to a goal, the game starts at 60. Single player games are the ones where leveling itself is a goal. In an MMO, the leveling is just the means to the end.

In vanilla wow, the only activities you could do at 60, were raids, dungeons, BGs, and world pvp.

Compare that to what you have today, where on top of those 3 activities, there's also pet battles, brawler's guild, mog collection, achievement hunting, world quests, rated battlegrounds, pvp brawls, arenas, scenarios, mythic dungeons, challenge modes, mage tower solo scenario, archaeology, treasure hunting, collectible-acquisition, weekend events, timewalking, soon also island expeditions and warfronts, and so much more.

Granted, these activities are not for everyone (For example, even though I recognize its a popular activity, I don't really partake in pet battles. Its not my thing), but the fact that there's so many of them for a wide array of tastes and likes, is MILES better than what was available during vanilla wow.

I don't think anybody here has told you how to play, or tried to force you to change the way you play, obviously people disagree with you because there is a lot to disagree with, again you are trying to argue with people who played vanilla and I think we've all at some point questioned your credibility, and again it may be because the version of the game you play is not legit Vanilla.

And I just want to point out this thread isn't about you or telling people which game to play, You chose to wade in with your opinions, seem upset that anyone has the audacity to disagree or put you straight on a few facts, when essentially I'd like anyone playing the legit vanilla, if and when it comes out, just to do so with a pinch of salt.
If you post things that misrepresent something, of course people are going to call you on it, and a couple of members here who have been here as long as I can remember have corrected you, and you have responded with snark, insults yourself, the very thing you accuse others of, so maybe take your own advice buddy.

Also this bit. This bit SO MUCH. Thanks bud, this is exactly what I wanted to say.

Nobody here is telling YOU Fother, what you should be playing, or how to play it. You came here expressing your opinion (For that's what it is, your opinion, not a fact), and your opinion got rebuked.

By all means, if vanilla is what you yearn and enjoy so much, dive right in on the upcoming classic servers, I sincerely hope you have fun, since after all, fun is the reason anyone plays videogames in the first place. Just don't berate the parts of the game you don't enjoy anymore, nor those who still enjoy it even if you don't.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by fotheringham

Post by Adamsm

blah blah blahLook, I'm not even going to bother to continue responding to your continued insults and trolling. I don't know why you feel compelled to turn threads toxic by behaving in this manner, but be aware that you are accomplishing nothing positive or constructive — so I advise against continuing to behave in such a way. You think that the only way to play the game is your way and that's just not true. Your 'arguments' are thus irrelevant. Show some respect for your fellow players and leave them in peace to support and play whatever version of the game they want in whatever way they find most enjoyable. Enjoy Battle for Azeroth and I look forward to discussing other topics with you in the future — hopefully on more civil terms.

The only person being uncivil here is you fotherginham and the fact that rather then responding to an argument, you just quoted it as 'blah blah blah' feels like a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and saying 'I can't hear you, I can't hear you' because you don't want to hear something that you disagree with it. You are dismissing anything 'negative' about Vanilla and calling it 'untrue, opinions, etc etc' when there hasn't been any lies about what the game was like during the first 2 years; it was a mess. It was still a good game, and still playable, but there were bugs, flaws and other issues that weren't corrected till BC. Again, I don't think you actually were on the true Vanilla servers when it came out, which is why you don't remember what the game itself was like. If all you've been playing are private servers, none of that is accurate to what the game was like back then.

Post by Rankkor

blah blah blahLook, I'm not even going to bother to continue responding to your continued insults and trolling. I don't know why you feel compelled to turn threads toxic by behaving in this manner, but be aware that you are accomplishing nothing positive or constructive — so I advise against continuing to behave in such a way. You think that the only way to play the game is your way and that's just not true. Your 'arguments' are thus irrelevant. Show some respect for your fellow players and leave them in peace to support and play whatever version of the game they want in whatever way they find most enjoyable. Enjoy Battle for Azeroth and I look forward to discussing other topics with you in the future — hopefully on more civil terms.

You talk about others disrespecting you, but you boil down my post to "blah blah blah" and give me a canned copy&paste response.

For someone so "offended" you sure don't give one single solitary care to offending others.

News flash bud, YOU are the one toxic here.

Edit: Also, if you're not gonna bother to type a real response and instead intend to copy&paste the same post over and over in a juvenile effort to get the last word, just don't bother participating in the thread at all. Further copy&pastes will very likely be removed. Further discussion is encouraged and gladly welcomed, but if every time someone rebukes one of your arguments you're gonna copy&paste the same post "blah blah blah, stop offending me", then I have to question why do you even bother to engage in a discussion at all.

You express your opinion, someone else refutes it, you refute the refusals, and this back and forth is the basis of every debate and discussion ever. You can't just automatically express your way as the solitary way, and then play the victim card when nobody agrees with you. I've taken a long hard look at every post here, and NOT ONE has insulted you. If you choose to interpret rebuttals as offenses and disrespect........ well....... I'm afraid that fault is your own(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##

Post by Jkpman

Moving on..

Well personally I'm curious about the direction Blizzard will take with the classic servers.
I don't claim to know a lot about how private servers have been run, but from what I have seen many of them choose patch 1.12, which is basically the patch before BC.
So.. how can one possibly say they have had the Vanilla experience when quite frankly they've skipped so much of what was wrong?

Which begs the question, which patch will Blizzard come in with? I personally would like the Classic version to be true and start on a two year journey from patch 1, but it may well be the best face Blizzard can put on the game, to make it more appealing to the consumer base.

My decision would be to fix all the bugs. (anyone remember getting stuck looting and kneeling down for 30 mins) but stay true. And you may say I want people to suffer, well lol maybe I do, but I also want people to find a new appreciation of the game, because despite all the faults it was still miles ahead of anything else.

Post by Adamsm

I can't see them doing progression on the Classic servers; since you know, some classes didn't even exist in the early builds. More then likely they'll do it at the last patch when Naxx was open, and then just leave it be.

I'm also thinking that the 'smart' thing to do would be to put in the quality of life improvements; allow for the looking for group tool, the summoning stones at instances with the current set up where you only need two rather then 3 like it was originally, mounts at 20/40 rather then 40/60. Things that won't make Vanilla such a huge slog. For all my mocking, I get people want to play the game as it was, but a lot of those bugs and issues made it a chore; make it so that people can have 'fun' while playing rather then it just being that slog to 60. But it would be nice to put back in the 10 man L/UBRS; let people see what the zerg was like back then to race to the bottom of Lower then charge into Upper and boot ass to the top. Same with original Strath; it was fun doing that place with 10 people...the looting logistics were a nightmare, but nothing like watching Baron eradicate the entire party in one go lol.

Post by Jkpman

Post by Rankkor

Post by Adamsm

Well technically we now have major advancements such as mumble, battle.net which on their own are major game changers compared to what we had back in Vanilla.

We are also so much more informed, thanks to sites like this, so yeah not even close to being as noobish.

I dunno, I think it would be a grind to 60 but if you remember stuff like MC, it was pretty much tuned to be cleared if a 50% or more mortality rate.

Oh I know we have a lot of advancements...but other things still really sucked in Vanilla and early days of BC; the slog was real lol, and it would be nice to have that not be as vicious/crappy as it was originally since there are some changes they could add in to improve it in game. You know the add-on community is going to blow up again as people have to set things up in regards to the Classic server.

I've heard some pretty disturbing rumors that the classic servers will require their own client, their own account, and most importantly, their own sub.

I sincerely hope that's nothing but rumors and hearsay, because if it ever happens to be true, so long goes any potential plan to play in them for A LOT of people.

The mere idea of paying a sub fee to play a game that's gonna stay stagnant and never ever progress forward feels as dumb as paying a subscription fee to play skyrim. No more expansions, or DLCs, just the vanilla skyrim, same content forever.

The servers need to be either free, or associated with your main account, so that your sub pays for both current and classic realms.

Eh, too early to listen to rumours like that, since they are only just hiring the team. Not gonna lie, I can see Blizzard doing that, but I'll wait for it rather then casting my standard doom and gloom outlook on the subject.

Post by Jkpman

I've heard some pretty disturbing rumors that the classic servers will require their own client, their own account, and most importantly, their own sub.

I sincerely hope that's nothing but rumors and hearsay, because if it ever happens to be true, so long goes any potential plan to play in them for A LOT of people.

The mere idea of paying a sub fee to play a game that's gonna stay stagnant and never ever progress forward feels as dumb as paying a subscription fee to play skyrim. No more expansions, or DLCs, just the vanilla skyrim, same content forever.

The servers need to be either free, or associated with your main account, so that your sub pays for both current and classic realms.

That would defeat the purpose in my opinion, it would simply drive people back to the private servers, It may be calling the bluff of the pirates but yes if the above is true it would probably kill the plan before it even begins. Of course that might be what Blizzard want, as they've pretty much always said they don't want to do classic, this might be a way of putting the issue to bed for good. "A we did it but you didn't buy it" kind of thing.

That said, My thoughts now are that it will take a couple of years before we see anything, and just a hunch I have is that it might be free content "given" to players on the landmark 15th Anniversary.
I can't really see it costing anything because if I am to believe the some speculation from various sources, the rise in subs alone will keep the game profitable for years to come.

Classic Or Battle for Azeroth

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