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The Future of Lordaeron
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Post by
morginar
So? The man you worship to rather disturbing degrees, Garithos is FAR worse than her, Since he's a totalitarian racist genocidal maniac. You seem to have no problem with him.
I don't worship the man.
He's faulted but at least he does what he has to, his objective is to save lordaeron.
That is enough for me to have a positive opinion of him.
The fact that he's practically the first ret paladin with his class, he somehow beat the scourge all the way to lordaeron and likely retook it before he got mind controlled and the fact that it was his death that proved to me slyvannas cannot be trusted at all is why i remember him and reference him so much.
And Hitlers objective was to save Germany.
Garithos was basicaly the first Scarlet Crusader. Given that the opinons of the scarlets on non-human is basicaly: "kill em' cus' they are diffrent."
Slyvannas name is infact Sylvanas. And you know what they say. What comes around, goes around. And if Sylvanas cared for Keal'Thas that is more than enought reson to kill Othmar and is infamous mustache.
And given Garithos racist opinions, he would have tried to kill Sylvanas after the siege. If it is becouse she has pointy ears or for her skin condition is a question for the philosophers.
Post by
Behelich
Not to mention that it is heavily implied that Garithos owed a lot of his success to the conflict between brothers Stormrage that saw more than a few Scourge troops caught in between. Garithos is a disgrace to the human race as a whole.
Post by
Atik
And Hitlers objective was to save Germany.
Welp.
We all knew that was coming.
Post by
bromil
Welp.
We all knew that was coming.
If even Godwin can't stop this thread, what chance do we have?
Post by
Monday
The problem is, while I normally frown on Godwin, it's a rather apt comparison to Garithos. I might not go as far as Hitler, but he was definitely a racist who wanted to purge blood elfs because screw me, I don't know why. Probably pure hatred.
Post by
Rankkor
The problem is, while I normally frown on Godwin, it's a rather apt comparison to Garithos. I might not go as far as Hitler, but he was definitely a racist who wanted to purge blood elfs because screw me, I don't know why. Probably pure hatred.
and the "handwave" given by blizz on why he hates elves, doesn't explains why he hates the other non-human races in his army, such as the dwarves and the gnomes.
And 4dehorde, you STILL haven't responded to my post. And I've quoted it to you TWICE.
/feeling ignored.
Post by
4dehorde
When something is proven to be correct, I'll believe it.As any any new Lore from the Books instantly trumps whatever lore there was before, it's already been proven correct and true.It didn't really matter to the Forsaken one way or another how or why more Orcs were cursed with demon blood since the death of Mannoroth, but it was important to the Orcs and they helped them solve the mystery. Of course, they were doing that to find new and interesting ways to kill other races...but hey, what can you do.
Another example is the town of Tranquillien. Forsaken dispatched by Sylvanas herself to help the Blood Elves fight the threats in the Ghostlands. I find it almost heartwarming to see the two races working together. I also feel a sense of pride. Two races, betrayed and left scarred by the Scourge, working side-by-side. Sylvanas herself also played a role in getting Warchief Thrall to admit the Blood Elves into the Horde.And yet, now a days(read since Cata), Lor'themar does not trust them; after all, he had been speaking with Varian about possibly having the Blood Elves leave the Horde and rejoin the Alliance....until Jaina screwed that up.
It has been proven that Taurajo was an outright massacre, and nothing you say or do will change that.
Do you have some sort of proof of these claims? It has been years since the war in Outland and I have yet to see any Forsaken demon blood weapon.
Lor'themar was talking about leaving the Horde because of Garrosh abusing his people, not any mistrust of the Forsaken.
So? The man you worship to rather disturbing degrees, Garithos is FAR worse than her, Since he's a totalitarian racist genocidal maniac. You seem to have no problem with him.
I don't worship the man.
He's faulted but at least he does what he has to, his objective is to save lordaeron.
That is enough for me to have a positive opinion of him.
The fact that he's practically the first ret paladin with his class, he somehow beat the scourge all the way to lordaeron and likely retook it before he got mind controlled and the fact that it was his death that proved to me slyvannas cannot be trusted at all is why i remember him and reference him so much.
I can name quests in both Silverpine and Western Plaguelands that rebuke such claims. Sylvanas genuinely cares for her people, as proven time and time again. Nothing you say or do will change that pal. Here is what she says at the end of one such quest where you have to recover insignias from slain Forsaken Troopers:
First off, that's what she's saying.
Which dictator outright admits s/he doesn't give a rat's ass about his/her people?
Second off, In-game lore has to be bent for gameplay and thus goes second to book/storyline lore.
Another example is the town of Tranquillien. Forsaken dispatched by Sylvanas herself to help the Blood Elves fight the threats in the Ghostlands. I find it almost heartwarming to see the two races working together. I also feel a sense of pride. Two races, betrayed and left scarred by the Scourge, working side-by-side. Sylvanas herself also played a role in getting Warchief Thrall to admit the Blood Elves into the Horde.
We all know slyvannas just wanted more arrows to shoot at arthas, you just have to look at lor'themar's short story to see she's using the blood elves as extra fodder.
Garithos was probably one of the worst Alliance commanders in history. His blatant racism, which has become more and more typical of Alliance in modern times, was enough by itself to ensure I shed no tears when he died. When it comes to racism and prejudice he is up there with Daelin, Varian, and Jaina.
Do you have some sort of proof she is lying? If not we have to assume she is telling the truth. And second of all, there is no book lore to suggest Sylvanas does not care for her people. It was just that single short story which is set before the Invasion of Silverpine. And besides, towards the end of that story we see Sylvanas having a change of heart. Her actions and words while defending Silverpine from the Alliance invasion reflect that.
Again, one short story does not override all the other lore pieces. Sylvanas has gone far and out of her way to help the Blood Elves time and time again. You cannot make such claims. Well you can but they aren't accurate.
You know, while you claim Sylvanas does not care for her people, what about Varian? His near constant war-making has left many of his people homeless in Westfall. If you ask me a leader should focus on the wellbeing of their own people before starting wars with rivals. Sylvanas may be making war on the Alliance, but that is in defense of Lordaeron and her people, so not the same situation. And besides, she didn't start the war like Varian.
Edit: I may not have responded to you
directly
, Rankkor, but I have addressed the issue you brought up.
Post by
Monday
Do you have some sort of proof of these claims?
I'd ask the same question of you.
Do you have some sort of proof she is lying? If not we have to assume she is telling the truth.
Do you have some sort of proof that Baine is misinformed? If not we have to assume he is telling the truth.
Post by
4dehorde
Do you have some sort of proof of these claims?
I'd ask the same question of you.
Do you have some sort of proof she is lying? If not we have to assume she is telling the truth.
Do you have some sort of proof that Baine is misinformed? If not we have to assume he is telling the truth.
A link to the first quest in a series where Forsaken apothecaries delve into the blood curse mystery in Outland:
A link to a quest that shows a few of the civilians mercilessly slain during the massacre:
Post by
Monday
So... 4 people died in a military attack. That's terrible.
Post by
4dehorde
So... 4 people died in a military attack. That's terrible.
First of all, I said a few. Many more perished than that, as evidenced by all the corpses. Second of all it's called game scaling. Many more perished at Taurajo than those projected in-game.
Post by
Monday
Many more perished at Taurajo than those projected in-game.
Post by
4dehorde
Its already been cited. Stop trying to dodge this.
Post by
Monday
Its already been cited. Stop trying to dodge this.
I'm not the one doing the dodging, here.
Post by
Adamsm
It has been proven that Taurajo was an outright massacre, and nothing you say or do will change that.Well...except for Blizzard saying otherwise, am I right?
Do you have some sort of proof of these claims? It has been years since the war in Outland and I have yet to see any Forsaken demon blood weapon.Hey, remember that Blight stuff, made by the RAS...the same group doing the experiments in Hellfire? Yeah, I'm sure none of the Fel taint they found there didn't find it's way into the Blight experiments.
Lor'themar was talking about leaving the Horde because of Garrosh abusing his people, not any mistrust of the Forsaken.He doesn't trust any of the Horde, including the Forsaken, because Sylvanas didn't provide any support at all to him...hell, other then a few Death Guards and Warlocks in the very beginning assaulting the Alliance forces in Jade Forest, you see no Forsaken forces anywhere at all in Pandaria.
Post by
morginar
To be fair the forsaken is heavialy ignored in mop.
Edit: There is that forsaken rogue that follows nazgrim in the questlines and some forsaken chill in two moons asweel.
On a related note, How many dreanei, worgen and gnome did you see in mop?
Post by
oneforthemoney
To be fair the forsaken is heavialy ignored in mop.
Edit: There is that forsaken rogue that follows nazgrim in the questlines and some forsaken chill in two moons asweel.
On a related note, How many dreanei, worgen and gnome did you see in mop?
Well, there are gnome rogues, engineers and quite a few draenai paladins and shamans participating in Operation Shieldwall. There is also that worgen, Seraphine of the Winter on the Skybreaker.
Post by
4dehorde
Its already been cited. Stop trying to dodge this.
I'm not the one doing the dodging, here.
Yes you are. I provided citation and proved my point, but you are trying to avoid it by claiming I did not provide citation when I did. Sorry but that is rather childish.
It has been proven that Taurajo was an outright massacre, and nothing you say or do will change that.Well...except for Blizzard saying otherwise, am I right?
Do you have some sort of proof of these claims? It has been years since the war in Outland and I have yet to see any Forsaken demon blood weapon.Hey, remember that Blight stuff, made by the RAS...the same group doing the experiments in Hellfire? Yeah, I'm sure none of the Fel taint they found there didn't find it's way into the Blight experiments.
Lor'themar was talking about leaving the Horde because of Garrosh abusing his people, not any mistrust of the Forsaken.He doesn't trust any of the Horde, including the Forsaken, because Sylvanas didn't provide any support at all to him...hell, other then a few Death Guards and Warlocks in the very beginning assaulting the Alliance forces in Jade Forest, you see no Forsaken forces anywhere at all in Pandaria.
Blizzard did not say otherwise. Please don't resort to making things up.
Sorry, but there is no evidence that the Blight contains Fel energies. You will need to provide some citation.
There is no evidence to suggest that Lor'themar distrusts all of the Horde. Furthermore, did it not occur to you that maybe the reason the Forsaken have not deployed a large force to Pandaria is because they need to keep defending Lordaeron from Alliance aggression?
Post by
Adamsm
Blizzard did not say otherwise. Please don't resort to making things up.Um...did you miss this post earlier?
Right from Blizzard
; since again, nothing can be written into a book without their express consent.
Sorry, but there is no evidence that the Blight contains Fel energies. You will need to provide some citation.Saw it clearly in the Rise of the Lich King chapter with Sylvanas, where she is watching the Blight being tested...plus you know, the original Vanilla WoW quests, where as a member of the Horde, you gathered many volatile and poisonous items for the RAS apothecaries, which is what eventually becomes the Blight...and as it's RAS that sends you off to gather that tainted Fel blood well....
There is no evidence to suggest that Lor'themar distrusts all of the Horde. Furthermore, did it not occur to you that maybe the reason the Forsaken have not deployed a large force to Pandaria is because they need to keep defending Lordaeron from Alliance aggression?What aggression? They wiped out the Alliance/living forces in Arathi, Hillsbrad, Gilneas and the Western Plaguelands; there is no more 'Alliance aggression'. All I see is the Forsaken not assisting. However, you do see Lor'themar getting fed up with the Horde...and since Sylvanas hasn't done anything to assist him since, and in fact took a hero of the Blood Elves off to torture(you know, Koltira?) I can't see him wanting too much to do with Her mad plans anymore.
Post by
4dehorde
Blizzard did not say otherwise. Please don't resort to making things up.Um...did you miss this post earlier?
Right from Blizzard
; since again, nothing can be written into a book without their express consent.
Sorry, but there is no evidence that the Blight contains Fel energies. You will need to provide some citation.Saw it clearly in the Rise of the Lich King chapter with Sylvanas, where she is watching the Blight being tested...plus you know, the original Vanilla WoW quests, where as a member of the Horde, you gathered many volatile and poisonous items for the RAS apothecaries, which is what eventually becomes the Blight...and as it's RAS that sends you off to gather that tainted Fel blood well....
There is no evidence to suggest that Lor'themar distrusts all of the Horde. Furthermore, did it not occur to you that maybe the reason the Forsaken have not deployed a large force to Pandaria is because they need to keep defending Lordaeron from Alliance aggression?What aggression? They wiped out the Alliance/living forces in Arathi, Hillsbrad, Gilneas and the Western Plaguelands; there is no more 'Alliance aggression'. All I see is the Forsaken not assisting. However, you do see Lor'themar getting fed up with the Horde...and since Sylvanas hasn't done anything to assist him since, and in fact took a hero of the Blood Elves off to torture(you know, Koltira?) I can't see him wanting too much to do with Her mad plans anymore.
That is not a quote from Blizzard saying Taurajo was not a massacre, it is a quote from Blizzard saying that Baine thinks there was no massacre. As all evidence shows, he is misinformed. Taurajo was a bloody massacre the Alliance committed out of hatred and bloodlust.
Again you will need to provide citation. And nowhere in the original New Plague quests is a single hint of Fel energy. So, there is no Fel energy in the Blight. You just can't accept the fact that the Forsaken did something beneficial for another race.
The Alliance started the war in the first place. And they invaded Silverpine, were going to invade Hillsbrad but failed due to a preemptive strike, and tried to seize Andorhal during another invasion. Most of the conflict going on in Lordaeron is the Forsaken defending and retaliating against Alliance aggression and expansionism. And they did not wipe out all Alliance forces in Arathi nor Gilneas. First of all Stromgarde's forces still hold their small bit of the city and Refuge Point is still there. Second of all Gilneas was not Alliance during the invasion and many Gilneans survived the invasion and fled to Darnassus. And the Forsaken were justified in wiping out Alliance forces in Silverpine, Western Plaguelands, and Hillsbrad because the Alliance was invading Lordaeron, over and over.
Lor'themar is fed up with Garrosh. I don't see him showing any anger towards Vol'jin, Baine, or even Sylvanas. And after Jaina's purge of Dalaran (off topic: I want to see her head on a pike for that), instead of rejoining the Alliance we see Lor'themar act more like he wants to reform the Horde instead, meaning get rid of Garrosh. Koltira was hardly a Blood Elf hero. First of all he is a High Elf death knight. Second of all he was enlisted in the Forsaken Army, not Silvermoon's.
Lastly, I hardly call Sylvanas' plans "mad". Wanting to safeguard her people and drive the Alliance out of Forsaken territory seems perfectly legit to me.
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