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PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
Anticipation VS Shuriken throw
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Post by
858744
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
858744
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Attis
For PVE purposes I think
Anticipation
is Sub and Assassination talent,
I don't see any use of it as Combat only for poor
procs which is rare to proc at 4cp. While
ST
can be useful at times when you cant get close to a target or was pushed away.
Post by
stuffeh
It takes 4 SS/RvS to go between different BG buffs. If you use 5 CP of SnD and then pool your CP into Anticipation, ambush+RvS+SS+SS+SnD then SS until 4 charges of Anticipation, you *could* get into deep insight before you apply rupture and eviscerate and not waste a single CP. Thus, you would be doing 10-20% more dmg with your damaging finishers.
ST is clearly situational, if you believe you do more dps with it than anticipation, then use it.
Combo point generation with Sub spec is very fluid and controllable. However, with combat and assassination, you get random procs that give you extra CPs which (without anticipation) would make it better to use your finishers at 3 or 4 CP (depending on spec) to safely ensure you don't waste the extra CP
IF
it procs. So with Anticipation, you can safely use finishers at 5 CP rather than 3 or 4 to be certain that you don't waste the extra CP.
Post by
Durg
The thing that's different in MoP is talents are so much easier to arrange that it doesn't necessarily have to be a "One or the other" situation. If you keep a stock of Tomes on hand you can change the talent to suit the fight. Anything that will require you to distance yourself from the boss for a while (Like Marrowgar during Bonestorm) ST would be useful so when you can get back on him you'll have 5 CPs and can go right into a rotation.
Post by
1019968
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
stuffeh
The only way you should be capping anticipation charges is by using a RvS at 4 charges, or SS at 3 charges. If you SS at 4 charges you have a 20% chance of wasting the extra CP you get from the RvS debuff.
Post by
AkimboYojimbo
Anticipation is a huge boon to combat because you can use it to max out your 5 point finishers during the red phase (30% increased damage) of Bandit's Guile. During yellow phase make sure your snd and rupture are up while pooling 5 combo points and anticipation charges. With some practice you can usually time it so that you are hitting the red phase as you build your last anticipation charge. Then, BAM, two 5 point eviscerates in a row with enough time to build another 5 points and maybe a KS. That's a lot of burst dps.
The only way you should be capping anticipation charges is by using a RvS at 4 charges, or SS at 3 charges. If you SS at 4 charges you have a 20% chance of wasting the extra CP you get from the RvS debuff.
I think he means -deliberately- capping your Anticipation charges in order to deliver finishers during the 30% phase of BG.
Post by
stuffeh
I think he means -deliberately- capping your Anticipation charges in order to deliver finishers during the 30% phase of BG.
Doing so would be a waste of combo points/energy/damage. You get more bang per CP when straight comparing 1 CP to 5 CP when doing SnD, Rupture, Crimson Tempest, Kidney Shot and Eviscerate. Mouseover each ability and do the math. 10% of the extra dmg from the next phase of BG doesn't make up for the (potential or deliberately) lost CP.
Post by
hymer
I'm a little unsure what you mean when you talk of 'capping'. Capping CP without Anticipation I get - that's 5 CP, and runs the risk of losing one or more CPs. Capping Anticipation, well that might mean the same (but with no risk of losing CPs), or it might be 5 CP on the mob and 5 CP in the anticipation bucket (very likely to lose CPs).
Post by
AkimboYojimbo
I think he means -deliberately- capping your Anticipation charges in order to deliver finishers during the 30% phase of BG.
Doing so would be a waste of combo points/energy/damage. You get more bang per CP when straight comparing 1 CP to 5 CP when doing SnD, Rupture, Crimson Tempest, Kidney Shot and Eviscerate. Mouseover each ability and do the math. 10% of the extra dmg from the next phase of BG doesn't make up for the (potential or deliberately) lost CP.
I'm a little unsure what you mean when you talk of 'capping'. Capping CP without Anticipation I get - that's 5 CP, and runs the risk of losing one or more CPs. Capping Anticipation, well that might mean the same (but with no risk of losing CPs), or it might be 5 CP on the mob and 5 CP in the anticipation bucket (very likely to lose CPs).
To clarify, I assume Grey is talking about timing your accrual of CP so that he reaches a state of 10CP (5CP on the mob, and 5 charges of Anticipation) just as he crosses the threshold into the red phase of BG (30%) damage. Ideally this would happen directly after having buffed yourself with a 5CP SnD so that when the red BG phase begins you have roughly 15 seconds of SnD remaining. No CP are lost (barring a mispressed key or perhaps some lag throwing off your count) they just aren't spent until reaching the red phase of BG.
I'll just assign some values since we're not working with an actual character, just trying to explain the theory. Say that my 5CP Eviscerate lands for 10,000 damage base. This means that (BG1)=11,000 (BG2)=12,000 and (BG3)=13,000. Over the course of 20 seconds I have the opportunity to land 3 of these moves on my target and I'll follow a traditional role of delivering them at the earliest opportunity and each one lands in a separate phase of BG for a total of 11,000+12,000+13,000=36,000 damage within those 20 seconds. In contrast, taking advantage of Anticipation, I deliver my finishers during the red phase of BG within those same 20 seconds meaning I've dealt 13,000+13,000+13,000=39,000 damage.
That's a big enough wall, please feel free to point out any flaws.
Post by
hymer
Thanks for being so clear, anyway. :)
Post by
stuffeh
Let's assume each CP is does 2k dmg for a base dmg of 10k. In reality with the dmg per 1 CP when doing 5 CP is 3-4% less than a 1 CP eviscerate. So real numbers should be: with a 1 CP eviscerate, it does 1k damage, while a 5 CP eviscerate does 9.6k damage. But whatever, for simplicity 5 CP does 10k damage.
On my last stone guard fight (closest patchwork type fight there is), I gained deep insight 6 times. So let's say over the course of a fight you cap do this trick 5 times which requires you to cap 5 CP (low ball estimate). Assuming you wasted the damage potential for those 5 CP with no BG buff, so a 10k damage eviscerate gone which is 2k per CP. And assuming each time you capped only 1 CP you were effective and perfectly had 10 CP just as you gained deep insight. Thus, you would of done 3k*5=15k damage gained. The balance would be that would would have to waste 15/2 =
7.5 CP for the damage gained to be equal
.
If you wasted the CP at shallow insight, a 5 CP eviscerate would be 11k, which is 2.2 k per CP. This would mean you can only waste 15 / 2.2 =
6.81 CP before it equalizes.
If you wasted the CP at moderate insight, a 5 CP eviscerate would be 12k, which is 2.4 k per CP. This would mean you can only waste 15 / 2.4 =
6.25 CP before it equalizes.
This doesn't even take into account the energy regen you have (base of 12 energy per second with 0 haste) along with the bonus energy proc for using finishers.
Post by
AkimboYojimbo
The balance would be that would would have to waste 15/2 =
7.5 CP for the damage gained to be equal
To be honest, Stuffeh, I'm a little confused by most of your post but I think this might be the linchpin of me understanding what your saying. What are you defining as a
waste
of CP in this scenario?
Post by
stuffeh
A waste of a CP is SS'ing (if RvS buff is on the target, which it should be always) with 4 or more anticipation charges. Disclaimer, there would not be a waste of an anticipation charge if you use RvS with 4 charges since RvS NEVER procs an extra CP.
And the dps loss in your quote is if the player is wasting more than 7.5 CP.
Post by
1019968
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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