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AoE Snap Aggro problems
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Post by
ellmo
This be my
profile
.
When running 5man instances with trigger-happy DPS I often have trouble snap-aggroing with pull on packs. It does not matter if I Leap or Charge to them, before I Rend and cast Thunderclap some of the mobs are already halfway to a mage or the healer. The worst part is of course 99% players run away when they have aggro, rather than run to me, but regardless - I think I can control the initial push better.
If it is just one target, like boss there's no way I'm gonna lose aggro. When I get there I can hit like a truck and never have to move, thanks to high CTC. But if anything goes wrong when pulling a pack, which almost always happens on the first mobs in
Hour of Twilight
when ranged decide to press their buttons when I'm charging. From my experience speccing into 2/2
Blitz
doesn't help much as a lot of the mobs are immune.
Do you run into similar problems?
What do you think I should do? Ask people not to dps before Thunderclap? They'll laugh at me.
I have a DK tank whose gear is completely uncomparable (he's about 360 ilvl, missing enchants) and he never looses aggro and let's a mob-pack wander around because of DnD and Death Grip.
Post by
marklartank
i don't usually have trouble, but try TC first. rend sometime before the 2nd TC.
if you have a full rage bar from the previous pull, then go ahead and SW first, then rend/TC.
Post by
225109
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749876
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226992
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Post by
Stuphid
I generally use TC before Rend as well for that insta-aggro. Then I use the stun from Shockwave to buy myself a few seconds to position and Rend a mob. After that, TC is off cooldown and you can start building serious threat on all the mobs.
I've uploaded a pulling video on YouTube (from WoTLK, so it's a bit old) I cannot post links here yet, so sorry for making you copy/paste this:
/watch?v=KD1oNP5li1k
(You gotta fit Rend in the rotation right after the shockwave)
Post by
226992
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Post by
marklartank
I dislike using Shockwave anywhere near the start of the pull...unless the pull is full of caster and I can stun their spell cast...even then I rarely use it anywhere near the start.
You want those melee mobs to attempting to smash you in the face so you can get more rage and thus allowing for more cleave & TC spamming while still having rage to SS, Rev, & Dev
that's why you try to float rage throughout trash pulls. unless something goes very wrong, use the end of a pack to autoattack and fill your rage bar, then you have no problem using SW on the next pack.
Post by
226992
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Post by
marklartank
I was referring to the inital pull or when you "have to" wait on the group and your rage drops back to zero.
yeah, for sure starting pulls with no rage sucks. one of the best things new warrior tanks can do is learn to chain pull for continuous rage income.
Post by
Scotia
This issue, ninja pulling, will always boil down to 2 conclusion. That you should stick with them and take the chance to improve your tanking techniques and situation awareness, or that you should let the ninja pullers get mobbed by the ones they pull.
In my case, it depends on the mood I'm in I guess. Normally I don't mind much. I try to get ahead of the group, moving onward when mobs are almost dead, not looting any mob when I'm the tank. This usually solves most of the problem of ninja pulling. Warriors have plenty of skill to close the gap between mobs when your group is behind. But when I'm not in the mood and some dps ninja pulls, I let them take it. And no, I'm not talking about occasional ninja pulls, or pulling first than the tank, I'm talking about pulling when the mobs are not yet in position or when the tank is not in position, those pulls. Hunter's misdirect are sometimes fine in those case but other than that, they can reap what they sow.
Your reaction is completely up to you. But in case your choice is the former one, TC first before Rend. Sure, TC after Rend is the best way for a Warrior to get AoE threat but it doesn't always have to be that way when you need snap aggro. There is always Inner Rage + Cleave, Shockwave to either get snap aggro or stall the mob in position before they go rampage.
On a side note, first mobs in HoT is only two mobs, unless you're talking about a different pack. You have 2/2 Gag Order, 30 sec Heroic Throw. Heroic Throw the other mob and charge the one the dps is attacking. Those mobs aren't the one I'm thinking of. After you kill the first boss, you encounter couple of waves of mobs. Those mobs, if a dps ninja pulls before they are in position, I'll let them die. Well, not that they hit hard though. Most mobs in the new 3 HoT dungeons are fairly weak, plenty of magic dmg mobs. If a healer is aware of it they can easily heal them through. But still I'll let them get the point.
The thing is, some dps don't realize, to get higher dps, they need to AoE, to AoE properly mobs need to be in position, packed, for a mobs to be in position tank needs to hold aggro. And tank can't hold aggro when mobs are loose everywhere. No AoE, less dps for the dps-ers.
And btw, if I'm the one to tell the dps to hold on before TC, and they laugh, oh ho ho, you can bet on that I won't hold aggro on the one they pull.
Stop making sense or you'll summon Zakkhar to this thread and he'll make SURE to let you know you're not as good a tank as he is because IT'S WHAT HE DOES. :P
I had the same sentiment a few months ago, and he went off on me saying I couldn't possibly have been playing a prot war since vanilla because I dared to get irritated at ninja pullers. So glad not everyone here is an idiot. Great post, Sky.
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