This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.5
PTR
10.2.6
How's my Tanking Tree?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
469842
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Porcell
I'll start with the easy questions. If there's a priest in your group, do Battle Shout. If there's a DK in your group, do Commanding Shout. If there both in your group, it doesn't matter. If there is neither in your group, and you have a lot of melee damagers, use Battle, otherwise you commanding.
Prime glyphs are self-evident. Major glyphs there aren't that many super strong ones, though I'd say Glyph of Cleaving is pretty mandatory. I use Cleaving, Thunderclap (the range increasing one) and Shockwave. Victory Rush can be a good one to use also. I wouldn't use Sundering.
Minor glyphs, use Berserker Rage for one and Demo Shout for the other, and your choice between battle and commanding.
As for the spec, which talents you use depends on what you are using your character for. Someone who is PvPing will be different than someone who is just running heroic instances, which is different than someone who's just farming normal raids, which is different than someone who is pushing heroic raid progression. WIthout knowing what you want it for, it's hard to answer. My spec, for example, has both Blood Craze (for heroic 25m Spine) and Safeguard (for heroic 25m Madness). I would not normally take those two talents in a normal raiding situation.
You have Blitz, which might be okay for instances and PvP, but it's a great talent. Blood Craze is also not a very good talent unless you have a LOT of stuff hitting you, and even then the amount of healing is small compared to what you get from a dedicated healer (though it is decent for PvP). Safeguard's not that good except maybe arenas (but who does Prot Arena...) and heroic madness for an extra cooldown. Gag Order, again, is good for PvP and instances but not raid tanking.
Post by
Zakkhar
I'm also wondering what usually flies now for tanking-- Commanding Shout or Battle Shout? Basically, what minor glyphs should I have?
It depends on class composition and your tanking style.
In general its better to provide some kind of damage boost so the enemies die faster and healer has to heal less - this means battle shout. Its however dull in a presence of any death knight, any other warrior, shaman who knows which totems to use, hunter who knows which pet to use. With both shaman and hunter still keeping up battle shout may be useful, as they can change the totem/pet for more beneficial to the group (armor totem - 4k ish armor is not too shabby, wolf for 5% crit or wind serpent for 8% more elemental damage taken).
Use commanding shout in all other circumstances, usually as a rage generator, not an actual HP boost (unless you are getting one shotted by some mechanics - than just dont stand in it or use cooldowns if you really have to).
Lastly, what Major / Prime glyphs should I have? I'm having trouble deciding on the major ones, especially, as I'm not sure how the game mechanics have progressed since 2+ years ago. Please help, because I know that it can't be perfect right now! =)
Primes are pretty straight forward.
For majors, shockwave is great for both damage and control (i used it as a healing cooldown on low gear - it gives you healer a time to top you off).
Sunder armor would be nice for damage boost if it really mattered - stuff dies too fast for it to matter. Aoe threat used to be challenging, its not any more (provided you pick proper talents, ill go back to it when picking talents).
Cleave was a great tool back in TBC, its even better now - with 3 targets, so pick the glyph for it.
Third choice depends, people pick Thunder clap (increases radius from 8 yards to 10 yards) as a default, but for leveling and 5 mans i find Victory rush increased healing absolutely no contest.
As for minors, i find demo shout lackluster. Its a rage/gcd glyph - it doesnt unstealth in pvp any more so its rather not used. Its not that you need that extra range on demo anyway. I rather have commanding and battle increased duration and range to make sure everyone get it.
As a returning character (played Vanilla --> WOTLK, just starting back up now) I'm curious if this talent line sounds adequate? I haven't renewed my account or anything, so I've had no chance to actually test this spec, and I probably won't for another two weeks or so, but planning can never hurt. So, ultimately, I'm curious about what I can do to make this spec better --
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LMbZhZIsGdRRozru:0VokqZzM
Now back to talents...
Blood and thunder
is an absolute must. Not 1/2. You dont want anything happening by chance. Believe me you dont.
Incite
looks great on paper, but its a raid boss dps skill. You wont use it very much on dungeon bosses (they live too short) and on aoe you are supposed to cleave anyway.
Gag order
- people paise this talent and it great in pvp, but in pve - you are in control, there is no reason to get lazy and getting used to playing paladin tank. (basically provides a ranged silence).
Vigilance
and
Concussion blow
- in my very opinion wasted 2 talent points. Vigilance is only useful on 2 tanked raid encounters and and i cant remember a situation when i could use one extra stun (charge, intercept, shockwave, racial), although there are some people who claim its useful. Not for me.
Blitz
not good talent for any spec, outside pvp maybe.
Safeguard
- absolute rubbish outside pvp. Count all times you intervened someone and they still got hit after that. You got none? Great, means you know how to tank.
Thunderstruck
- it looks like a small bonus, but considering it boosts all your aoe damage, it all adds up.
Blood craze
- it doesnt look good even on paper. A chance? To heal very small amount, most of which will be prolly overhealing? No ty. One Victory rush beats its healing during 10 minute dungeon run. By a lot.
Cruelty
- a good dps talent, for our hardest hitting (single target) ability.
War academy
- a good dps talent for our main attack
Most newbies pick
this
spec, but like i said i find we have enough tools* at our disposal in pve environment so we dont need additional stuns and a ranged silence. So i pick more dps oriented
style
as an end game spec. You are lvl 80 so you shouldnt need a leveling spec (which basically drops incite in favour of gag order and stuff).
*)
There are typically two tools of pulling ranged and caster mobs.
Silencing them (if casters) or pulling with a ranged attack and running out of range/out of line of sight.
I prefer the second option because it doesnt rely on you having any particular talents or cooldowns ready, just a ranged slot or even taunt.
Of course you can also charge in, but that has nothing to do with pulling (which by definition should make mobs come to you).
Post by
469842
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Some explanation might be required-- Wasn't sure if I should take survivability (healing bonuses, etc) over dps, hence the fury/arms talents I had picked. Also, I picked a lot of rage-generating abilities because that's how I used to deal the most damage, is constant rage-dumping, and I get nervous with no bloodrage and a 2-min cooldown on my shouts.
Shouts have 2 minutes duration, not cooldown. Cooldown is 60 seconds. There is nothing restraining you from using shout before its duration ends. Its basically Bloodrage and shout in same skill.
Rage is not a problem any more.
You get rage from:
dealing white damage (heroic strike/cleave doesnt negate the white damage any more)
taking direct hits (still doubled with zerker rage active)
taking blocked hits (15 per hit plus the damage worth of rage)
charge
shout
spell reflect
Are there still a ton of Death Knights running around? Meaning, is Commanding Shout going to come up more likely? I like how demoralizing shout sounds, especially with the glyph and so right now, it sounds pretty useful to me (again, I haven't tanked since Wrath, so maybe there's more of a push on the GCD thing, I need to hit up some training dummies).
Its irrelevant to you how many there are. But its plenty. Certainly more than locks (least played class). If you are tanking 5 man dungeon, you have 3 dps slots available with 10 classes possible. Clearly there is a big chance one of them will be a DK.
Is aoe tanking a big thing now? It seems there's a lot of pressure on thunder-clap, rend, and cleave. I recall most tanking I've done (heroics, several 10man raids) as my group hitting one-to-two mobs at a time then moving to the next... Thus, the need for things such as concussion blow and vigilance (though I suppose vigilance has been changed). Also, isn't concussion blow just more damage mitigation?
In wotlk people chain pulled stuff already. The big aoe fest is not new. Everything has been nerfed so badly there is no need for any cc any more and there are big group pulls everywhere even without chain pulling. Plus we can stack block now (or/and use shield block), making us take very little damage from such aoe pulls. Tanks do a lot of damage now due to
. There is no reason not to use this.
Can someone explain Victory Rush situations broadly? I don't recall having ever used it before; judging by the description it sounds useful, but, especially if there's an aoe push, is it actual useful enough to use while tanking? If so, is it worth putting a major glyph into, versus something like thunder clap?
Thunder clap unglyphed has 8 yards range, glyphed its 10 yard range. Ordinary people wont even see the difference. Shockwave has 10 yards range, though. You are usually charging before you thunder clap so there is no reason for something to be further than 8 yards away and if there is, it will avoid first clap and get shockwaved and hit by second thunderclap anyway.
How victory rush works? Once you do a killing blow to something of the appropriate level and hp you get a buff called victory rush, making the ability of the same name usable for next 20 seconds. Once you use it it deals normal damage based on your AP, also healing you for percentage of your max hp. 20% on default, 30% glyphed (actually its more with field dressing - 25.2% unglyphed and 37.8% glyphed). Its instant, it has no internal cooldown (so as long as you kill more stuff you can heal yourself for quite a lot).
Its usefull on bosses with minions, where your thunder clap+rend kills stuff, for chain pulling where your damage is carrying the group and you dont want to stop between pulls (you just open with victory rush) and for emergency situations, where pull was too big or/and healer is oom, dead, dced or left the group.
I use it to make my healer go nuts.
I think that I rather like the 8/2/31 tree that you posted (though I would personally put a point into concussion blow)
But why? You got Aoe cone stun on 17 second cd, two single target teleport move stuns on 15 second and 30 second cd.
Why in hell would you want single target melee range stun on 30 second cd? Stuff dies too fast for it to matter. It has its uses in pvp but outiside? Bosses are immune to all stuns anyway and for trash you got the above.
I'm just wondering if I can jump into tanking with that spec, or if I need a little bit of the survivability talents until I have raid-level gear.
Name any (useful) survivability talents i missed in it. Any.
Toughness? Check.
Hold the Line? Check.
Shield Mastery? Check.
Last Stand? Check.
Bastion of Defence? Check.
Shockwave glyphed and stuff? Check.
You dont need any more talents because you got all the skills on default: shield wall, shield block, enraged regen and rallying cry. Plus there arent any. Blood craze is laughable, Second wind doesnt work in pve and Impending Victory got debunked. It (Impending Victory) could be used for more fluent chain pulling or gimmick soloing but outside not really needed.
Also, I did dueling for fun (not really a BG person, but I dabble) after they made prot warriors more accessible against casters (warbringer, spell reflection, etc) but I was always too lazy to make an arms spec or whatever. I may make an arms spec in the future, but until then, will I be able to duel semi-efficiently with the 8/2/31 spec, or should I just hold off? (I'm not willing to trade off talents just to make dueling more accessible; grouping/raiding is more important to my playstyle)
Tanks used to be godly in pvp due to
, but it got nerfed in last patch so it doesnt proc from player attacks any more. You wont be able to kill anyone regardless of spec, but you can be a nuissance to some people or defending nodes, carrying flags.
Post by
469842
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
Thank you! Very helpful advice! One last question, however: if Victory Rush doesn't have a CD outside of the global cooldown, would it be worth it to throw 2 points from shield specialization into impending victory? It would heal, deal some damage, and also generate rage, since I see no rage cost, correct?
Yellow hits dont generate rage, only white (weapon autoswing). We arent in MoP yet.
Also its not usable unless you kill something. It has one charge. Its not that you can spam it for 20 seconds after a kill.
Impending victory procs only when mobs are in execute phase. Plus its a 50% chance on devastate, meaning you not only have to drop shield slam and revenge of the "rotation", but also there is not certainty it will proc at all.
Impending victory has a proc chance, for one charge as well it doesnt let you spam it in execute phase either.
Would the rage output from this be worth trading the 10 rage per block I'd be missing out on?
This isnt worth trading anything.
This expansion is up for almost two years, we had a lot of time to test the talents.
Would it be worth taking one point in each?
If there is something you dont want more than a game changing mechanics going on by chance is halving that chance due to not maxing the talent.
At this point, I don't know how fluid rage generation is in Cataclysm, so throwing Victory Rush into a rotation could potentially max out rage, but I'm not sure.
There is nothing fluid about it, but its sufficient even for spammers like myself.
About Impending Victory, Porcell tested it and provided us with data in a couple of threads (found one):
http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=193634/prot-warrior-builds-thinking-about-something-new
Post by
Xsound
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZobZfMGdRRRzru:0oVckazMk
is how I spec. I nerfed myself abit AoE wise, but AoE tanking is so easy. (Charge, Thunder, Shockwave, Spam cleave and thunder).
I also didn't take deep wounds because I like my Safeguard talent and Impending Victory is actually nice to have when the fight usually gets the toughest. (ultraxion)
Safeguard.. I wouldnt glyph it. I just use it to provide my second tank with a 6 second 30% damage reduction on all fights where we use 2 tanks. And I use it on every cooldown or accordingly to our strategy.
- Morchok in the beginning for positioning + Right before a stomp. And much more usefull in heroic mode aswell.
- Ultraxion at every hour of twilight. It's usually a DK or Palla co-tank I got, so they can take every HoT. and every reduction helps.
- Blackthorn on onslaughts on a squishy member, and we got a special guy in my tanking square who takes the small swirly thingies. I use it on him. During blackthorn himself I just try to keep it on the co-tank when he is tanking.
- Spine on 9 stacks of blood on a random member with healing debuff and on a random member with healing debuff when we roll. If Im tanking blood I put on DPS gear and stay in prot so I can intervene the amalg tank and people who get fiery gripped and I just generally try to intervene whenever there is big damage inc.
Especially on Spine Im pretty sure it has saved our asses a few times. Rest of the bosses in DS you can solo tank.
On the bosses I didn't mention (because you can solo tank them) I usually intervene people who will take hits. Zonozz during black phase and Yors when there is AoE damage or some clothy is being focused by an add. Hagara just before they get trapped in ice or to get out of range even quicker and reduce some ice-lance damage. Madness on any big damage inc (elementium bolt, those small tentacles and on someone with shrapnell.
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it. 30% reduction is huge combined with other defensive cooldowns and just in general on the co-tank. My spec has all the defensive talents you need and much more utility. It makes prot warrior that much more fun. The ordinary spec that everyone else proposes gives no real advantage over mine since AoE tanking is that easy and rage is not a problem. I do a tiny bit less damage for alot more utility and fun!
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability. But the heal from Blood crazy is a joke! It heals for nothing during a raid or instance.
- If you feel you need more AoE tanking then remove Blood Craze point and 1 point in either gag order or shield speci. (honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw. Makes heroics that much easier. Rage is not a problem even with 1/3 shield speci) and take 2/2 Thunderstruck and follow the glyph advice below.
The only real glyph I would consider changing is Sunder Armor to Increased Thunder clap range. But I like the DPS gain that other melees get from sunder armor glyph. Besides, 1 Shockwave and they are all mine.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell. Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
Post by
Zakkhar
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it.
We do, we just died more than once from intervening the other tank.
Also, the Op is about entry tanking, you talk about hc raiding. Two different things.
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability. But the heal from Blood crazy is a joke! It heals for nothing during a raid or instance.
Proc what exactly? Do you use any trinkets that proc on healing done? Arent they for healers?
Windwalk and most procable trinkets proc on melee swings.
- If you feel you need more AoE tanking then remove Blood Craze point and 1 point in either gag order or shield speci.
What has gag order to do with aoe?
(honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw. Makes heroics that much easier. Rage is not a problem even with 1/3 shield speci) and take 2/2 Thunderstruck and follow the glyph advice below.
Rage is always a problem, unless you can hs/cleave dump 24/7 with zerker rage and inner rage on cd, while doing everything else. If you can, than i guess its not a problem for you. I cant.
The only real glyph I would consider changing is Sunder Armor to Increased Thunder clap range. But I like the DPS gain that other melees get from sunder armor glyph. Besides, 1 Shockwave and they are all mine.
If anything lives long enough for those sunders to matter your melee dps should l2p.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Because threat is an issue, oh wait.
Wasnt that you you prefered sunder glyph for increased dps? And now devastate is last prio on the pull? Inconsistency.
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell. Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
Yeah, use 1 talent point to make a 5 minute trash fight that occurs once per raid a little easier.
Also many people dont realise you can silence/interrupt these drakes as well to pull them down. Also plenty other classes have taunts and interrupts.
Also as mentioned, its completely useless outside 2 boss tank fights. Which is Zonozz, Yorsaj, Hagara and whole normal content beside maybe Warmaster.
About Blood and thunder comment - Its not about aoe tanking being easy, its about your Aoe dps output. Rend is like 20-30% damage on aoe pulls.
Post by
Xsound
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it.
We do, we just died more than once from intervening the other tank.
Also, the Op is about entry tanking, you talk about hc raiding. Two different things.
Well then use it at the right time. I would still take it on entry tanking because it will give you more time to get familiar with the skill and not die because you use it at the wrong time.
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability. But the heal from Blood crazy is a joke! It heals for nothing during a raid or instance.
Proc what exactly? Do you use any trinkets that proc on healing done? Arent they for healers?
Windwalk and most procable trinkets proc on melee swings.
Proc windwalk. Windwalk can proc of Blood Craze - and I think that trinkets can proc off of it aswell. Not that it's important at all, I just like to have it.
- If you feel you need more AoE tanking then remove Blood Craze point and 1 point in either gag order or shield speci.
What has gag order to do with aoe?
Nothing. I said he could remove a point in blood craze and either shield speci or gag order to get Thunderstruck.
(honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw. Makes heroics that much easier. Rage is not a problem even with 1/3 shield speci) and take 2/2 Thunderstruck and follow the glyph advice below.
Rage is always a problem, unless you can hs/cleave dump 24/7 with zerker rage and inner rage on cd, while doing everything else. If you can, than i guess its not a problem for you. I cant.
With 2/3 shield speci I can do that most of the time unless I get some unlucky streaks. I still feel the extra utility I get is worth it to do it most of the time rather than 24/7.
The only real glyph I would consider changing is Sunder Armor to Increased Thunder clap range. But I like the DPS gain that other melees get from sunder armor glyph. Besides, 1 Shockwave and they are all mine.
If anything lives long enough for those sunders to matter your melee dps should l2p.
It's not about my melee DPS learning to play, but that there are no better glyphs for me. Thunderclap got enough range.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Because threat is an issue, oh wait.
Wasnt that you you prefered sunder glyph for increased dps? And now devastate is last prio on the pull? Inconsistency.
Now I have to nerdrage. Sorry. BUT READ! "Charge boss". I dont use concussion blows on trash till I got them save and then I can use it on target 3 to get a nice threat boost. On trash I charge in, get my threat up and start AoEing while devastating as much as possible to get that bit extra out of the glyph. The glyph spreads sunder to a second target, and I said to use Concussion blow to get high threat on a boss. Actually many tanks recommend using Concussion Blow in your rotation
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell. Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
Yeah, use 1 talent point to make a 5 minute trash fight that occurs once per raid a little easier.
Also many people dont realise you can silence/interrupt these drakes as well to pull them down. Also plenty other classes have taunts and interrupts.
Also as mentioned, its completely useless outside 2 boss tank fights. Which is Zonozz, Yorsaj, Hagara and whole normal content beside maybe Warmaster.
I did not underline ultraxion. I underlined vengeance. I mentioned ultraxion to show some stuff that got easier because of vengeance. Any fight where you are 2 tanks, it is nice to have vengeance. Now you are being inconsistant Mr. DamageOutPut. Vegeance is loads of damage on any 2 tank fight and you are just skipping that? Shame on you.
About Blood and thunder comment - Its not about aoe tanking being easy, its about your Aoe dps output. Rend is like 20-30% damage on aoe pulls.
And I said I was perfectly fine with skipping out on some DPS for more utility. And again Mr. Inconsistency, didn't you mention "entry-level tanking"? I wouldn't think that DPS would be of much concern in entry-level, nor that high either, even if you focused on it as a tank.
Now. you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm pretty sure you can't convince me that your spec is better, atleast not for anything other than heroic madness. And even on that fight I'd say safeguard is rather nice. Heck, even impending victory could do some good in P2.
Post by
Zakkhar
Proc windwalk. Windwalk can proc of Blood Craze - and I think that trinkets can proc off of it aswell. Not that it's important at all, I just like to have it.
Name one trinket that procs of healing done that is a tank trinket. Just one. Anything.
As for
Windwalk
. I dont know how well your reading skills are, so i'll bold the important part:
"Permanently enchant a weapon to sometimes increase dodge rating by 600 and movement speed by 15% for 10 sec
when striking in melee
, stacking with passive movement speed effects. Requires a level 300 or higher item."
What you "think" is irrelevant. The facts is all that matter.
With 2/3 shield speci I can do that most of the time unless I get some unlucky streaks. I still feel the extra utility I get is worth it to do it most of the time rather than 24/7.
Provide a log to back that up please. I know i cant and nobody else can. I feel like you are either doing something wrong or making it up.
It's not about my melee DPS learning to play, but that there are no better glyphs for me. Thunderclap got enough range.
And shockwave have short enough cd?
Charred Glyph
.
Oh wait, you lose some aoe for "utility". Sorry.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
Because threat is an issue, oh wait.
Wasnt that you you prefered sunder glyph for increased dps? And now devastate is last prio on the pull? Inconsistency.
Now I have to nerdrage. Sorry. BUT READ! "Charge boss".
I am reading. An i dont understand the fact that you want to provide damage boost for dps on trash (specing for trash), yet use completely opposite philosophy on boss pulls (where damage actually matters).
Actually many tanks recommend using Concussion Blow in your rotation
Since you already wasted a talent point for it, it would be kinda stupid not to use it, right?
Also name one tank that recommends it. Just one. Other than you.
Just find me a link to an up to date post that recommends using it.
I did not underline ultraxion. I underlined vengeance. I mentioned ultraxion to show some stuff that got easier because of vengeance. Any fight where you are 2 tanks, it is nice to have vengeance.
Any fight with 2 tanks? Where the other tank doesnt tank anything (second boss, adds) at the time or doesnt take any aoe damage?
Warmaster second phase? Anything else?
Which fights you mean? Please tell us.
Need to be fight where using two tanks is optimal and where the tanks dont take any damage after switch.
It was usefull in firelands, where two tanks fights where common and used this rule. But not in DS.
Now you are being inconsistant Mr. DamageOutPut. Vegeance is loads of damage on any 2 tank fight and you are just skipping that? Shame on you.
Considering my above comment, i'll only laugh at this remark.
And I said I was perfectly fine with skipping out on some DPS for more utility.
What utility exactly?
Name one utility talent you took. Safeguard?
Cause gag order is just laziness. Its same logic as you saying thunder clap has long enough range. I say warrior has enough tools to not need gag order in pve.
And again Mr. Inconsistency, didn't you mention "entry-level tanking"? I wouldn't think that DPS would be of much concern in entry-level, nor that high either, even if you focused on it as a tank.
Why would you start tanking wrong and than as you gear up and enter better content change that? Isnt it better to learn the proper behaviour at the very start?
Dps is concern always. If a tank in hc dungeon does 4k dps on aoe, he is a retard and deserves to get shot*. And he wont learn this way anything new, because he thinks he does allright (even claims so).
*) you know its more like a joke/exaggeration.
Now. you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm pretty sure you can't convince me that your spec is better, atleast not for anything other than heroic madness. And even on that fight I'd say safeguard is rather nice. Heck, even impending victory could do some good in P2.
How many times have you died using Intervene on other tank?
It was ok on hc LK, but thats about it.
Impending Victory got debunked. Look for the Porcells threads. The healing is mostly overhealing and when it aint its not the matter of life or death ever.
Post by
Xsound
Look Im done arguing with an idiot, but before I get dragged down to your level I might aswell teach you something. Blood Craze can proc weapon enchants. I know that the enchant doesn't say it will proc from healing done, but blood craze is kinda weird that way. I guess that's just one of those little fun things in the game.
Im not going to provide you with logs or links. You aren't reading my posts at all and you are coming from a 400ilvl+ geared druid thinking you know all about warrior tanking just because you have one. But just because some of us like to focus on 1 class, rather than 10, does not mean we can't find your little frontpage EJ sources or noxxic. No my friend, I've seen all the mainstream stuff and I've seen the more interesting stuff.
"What utility?" you ask, and mention gag order. Really low. I remarked earlier that gag order has no use in raids, and now you are talking about me favoring it? Hey, are you running for president? You wouldn't even need a spindoctor, you just put your own spin on everything so that it fits your next sentence.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Please try not to let your frustration get the better of you. If you have a point to make I need you to make it without insults. Try just taking a step back before replying and looking at exactly what's important then address the points not the person.
Thanks.
Post by
Zakkhar
Look Im done arguing with an idiot, but before I get dragged down to your level I might aswell teach you something. Blood Craze can proc weapon enchants. I know that the enchant doesn't say it will proc from healing done, but blood craze is kinda weird that way. I guess that's just one of those little fun things in the game.
I'll ignore the personal attack.
Feel free to link me to any source with proof that Blood craze procs anything.
Im not going to provide you with logs or links.
So...should i take it on faith?
You aren't reading my posts at all
I think i read them just fine.
and you are coming from a 400ilvl+ geared druid thinking you know all about warrior tanking just because you have one.
Oh so now because i stopped tanking for my guild at wotlk and picked up ranged dps slot instead, I got my feral geared the best because everyone LF tank when asked to pick a class (because i have all 4) pick a feral.
How is it my fault its best geared? Does it mean i have no exp on warrior? I may not have the gear, i may not have the achis - but does it mean i have less exp on it? Even in current content? Does it mean my raid group doesnt have a warrior tank and that i cant analyse the logs?
It obviously not. I play a warrior tank since TBC, i read wowhead and write on it. I discuss with other warrior tanks that can talk civil and back their theories with proof. I agree with some, i dont agree with others. No idea what you on about, I posted my chars links, i cant see yours anywhere. And still, having ilvl, being in progress guild, doing progression raiding doesnt make you a good theorcrafter all of a sudden.
But just because some of us like to focus on 1 class, rather than 10
I am not focusing on 10. I have them. I play them. I know them.
I have almost 100 days played on warr, only 22 on feral.
does not mean we can't find your little frontpage EJ sources or noxxic.
If you can find them, i am sure you can find them again. Please post links to the data that backs up all your claims.
No my friend, I've seen all the mainstream stuff and I've seen the more interesting stuff.
Sure, and i was on the moon. Of course i wont post pics or videos...but i was!
Ignoring all that personal attacks in bottom paragraph.
Post by
marklartank
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZobZfMGdRRRzru:0oVckazMk
is how I spec. I nerfed myself abit AoE wise, but AoE tanking is so easy. (Charge, Thunder, Shockwave, Spam cleave and thunder).
you didn't just nerf AoE a little bit...
for the OP, who will probably be doing a lot of heroics to gear up, B&T + Thunderstruck are two of the most important talents to take. and shield spec is certainly worth 3/3 when tanking multiple mobs. personally, i would also pick up deep wounds - at least until i got to progression raids.
Impending Victory is actually nice to have when the fight usually gets the toughest. (ultraxion)
i tried really hard to like this talent. i even used both glyphs for quite a while. i would even argue that it had some use very early in T11 when healers were struggling for mana - i certainly think it saved me from dying a time or two. but nowadays, the raid damage is much higher and the heal is just too small to be effective. in heroics, nobody is below 20% long enough to even use it, and you actually get a lot of the "real" VR procs, which are very noticeable heals.
Safeguard really got some potential and people just don't realise it.
i've always liked the idea of safeguard and trying to find ways to use it. it sounds like you are actively doing that and so it's probably worth the 2 points for raiding. for the OP, i wouldn't take it until he gets to non-LFR raids.
I took 1 point in Blood Crazy because it has chance to proc weapon enchants and I also think it has a chance to proc trinkets. More uptime = more survivability.
even if this did proc trinkets AND windwalk (and there's nothing to suggest it does), it's unlikely to add much uptime to either. there's usually enough stuff going on to keep trinkets on their ICD.
honestly I'd keep the gag order. If not for the silence then for the reduced cooldown on heroic throw.
this is always a debate, and people have strong opinions one way or the other. i think it's fine for heroics (although not necessary by any means). i had it when i first hit 85, but once i dropped the talent i found i much preferred to spell-reflect-tank casters anyway.
Concussion blow is super high threat to start of with. Charge boss, taunt, shield block+shield slam, concussion blow, revenge all whilst spamming heroic strike and you will be sure the boss is yours. Then you got lots of time to put up devastates, demo shout and thunderclap.
last time i checked (and i'll admit it's been a while), it was only slightly more threat than devastate. and since it doesn't proc S&B, it might actually be less in the long run for boss fights. for trash and 5-mans it certainly can be helpful, so it's not a bad point to spend for the OP. i kept the talent for quite a while in T11, but i could never find much use for it after that.
Dont skip out on Vigilance!
It stacks up vengeance
and makes the ultraxion trash that much easier. And probably other stuff aswell.
taunting spiders on beth'tilac is the only time this content patch i can remember vigilance being useful. it's just really not worth the point (or two). most of the time when co-tanking in raids, AoE damage will refresh your stacks, and it has almost no use at all in heroics.
Blood and thunder is not a must. AoE tanking is easy enough without it.
it's about the best talent in the tree for aoe tanking, so i would certainly not skip it in heroics. even for raiding it's worth it for trash and adds.
____________
one more thing - zakkhar was the only one who mentioned it, but incite is the talent the OP should skip pre-raiding. that's 3 points freed up for an attack that rarely gets used in heroics.
i would probably do something like
this
for a new 85 in heroics.
Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
very nice leveling spec to provide mark. basically what i used at the start of cata to farm dungeons etc.
Its about the same as mine proposal for the op, but i would change sunder armor for shockwave. threat isnt a problem and trash wont stand long enough to benefit from a little bit of added damage.
I find shockwave a very good survival cooldown on trash pulls (gives your healer time to cast anything before you go splat), so glyph of shockwave would fit me better.
Post by
MrSCH
He's right, having leveled a warrior solely as Prot Shockwave is immensely valuable in five mans and leveling.
Post by
marklartank
very nice leveling spec to provide mark. basically what i used at the start of cata to farm dungeons etc.
Its about the same as mine proposal for the op, but i would change sunder armor for shockwave. threat isnt a problem and trash wont stand long enough to benefit from a little bit of added damage.
I find shockwave a very good survival cooldown on trash pulls (gives your healer time to cast anything before you go splat), so glyph of shockwave would fit me better.
yeah, that makes sense - shockwave is probably the better choice.
Post by
328067
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zakkhar
my end game spec/s are completely dif than most peoples. i think im the only guy who doesnt pick up thunderstruck.
unique =/= optimal
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.