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Question about talent Master of Elements.

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Post by 783051

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Post by nickseng

It means AB without all the debuff.

Post by Tradu

Its for AB0, so its 261 mana per crit, I believe

Post by 783051

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Zakkhar

Ok so that being said, is it even really worth having? I mean I guess it means a slight bit more dps in the long run, but is it really worth taking the points out of improved blink/improved explosion?
Why would you need to take points of those talents?
Only reason i find is that you dumped them in something really useless.
This is how my build looks like (or any pve arcane mage for that metter) is yours different?

All that said, whats better than master of elements?
Imp cspell - pvp
Invocation - no spell interrupts on pve bosses
Imp polymorph - cant poly anything at bosses, adds included
Nether Vortex - may be useful when solo grinding, but is utterly useless in pve raid environment, bosses arent affected* by it and you get your TTW bonus of any tank (judgement of the just, thunder clap, infected wounds, frost fever) and some dps (shamans, dks etc)

Improved Fireblast - shouldnt be using that one anyway

Shatter/Early frost - you dont use frostbolt or frost nova bosses are you?

Master of elements is free mana, beats all these talents.

* - they arent immune, you can still apply the slow icon, it just doesnt do anything beside looking.

Post by Nathanyal

Post by 783051

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Post by 728668

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Post by Godwolf

Lol. Silly mages. Check the spec again and tell me why you can't get Fire Power :)

There's a good reason. Think about it. Why, in this discussion, is getting Fire Power not feasible?

(I'm a firm believer that the key to becoming a good player is to do a lot of the thinking yourself. People overly rely on other's now days to find out what the "right" answer is.)

EDIT: I had a long response to the below post. But then I stopped caring about trying to get my point across or have my meaning (and the joke) understood. I'm not very funny anyways. My apologies for upseting you.

Sidenote- What would that DPS increase be? .03%? Just, consider this. How much DPS do you gain by Improved Blink letting you get off, say, 50 more Arcane Blasts through the course of the entire raid? The ENTIRE raid? Compare that to 3% more damage from an ability that I've never seen break 1% of a mage's DPS in a raid.

Post by 783051

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Post by greywolfsage

Random Anecdotal evidence time!

Mage on my server. One of the best horde side guilds.

WoL pull from 25H FL run.

2% of his damage is from Flame Orb. Little over 2 mil. Getting 2% more on that is 44k damage. Add in hypothetical detonation from talent, and its 60-70k damage. Total. Added.

If Imp Blink gets you like 1 good AB, its already a better investment of talent points.

I actually dont run Master of Elements on my mage, I don't see much of a problem with dps or mana tbh.
Granted I don't do the mana management well, or even right at all half the time, but thats from burn-out/getting benched for my resto sham.

Sometimes I'm one of the only ones with half a damn brain, when I know a fight from reading on either wowhead or tankspot for 5 minutes before the raid better than my RL who's been studying it for a week or something.

Post by Zakkhar

And Fire Power - The only fire spell you use is flame orb, no point in boosting the 1 spell thats fire that you use as arcane when you can take improve blink or improved arcane explosion.
If you dont take master of elements you cant get to tier 2 where fire power is so trading MoE for fire power is not possible. You could trade Piercing shard for it or some arcane talents only.
I really thought its kinda visible to anyone with a functioning brain (no offence), so i skipped the info entirely.

@greywolfsage:
Son, i am disappoint.

Post by 783051

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Post by Zakkhar

Hope that wasn't directed at me, I can't tell. I of course know that MoE must be taken to hit the FP talent in the 2nd layer in fire spec. No offenCe taken lol. (you do say functioning brain then incorrectly spell a word in the same sentence)
It seems it was directed exactly at you. You just tried to be a sarcastic smartass and correct me for proper spelling of a word.
Check your info first. Dictionaries - they dont bite.

Arcane explosion? Current content, maybe MAYBE the spiderlings on beth, or rylioth(sp?) adds. But honestly if your doing that learn fire spec and down adds or let someone else do it.
Ragnaros p2 both normal and heroic.

Lets face it with a mastery that says the more % of our mana we have the more dps we do, a mana return talent seems kinda important. Keep the blink if you REALLY need it. For those that don't it's FLAME ORB TIME!
You got the flame orb anyway, even with fire spec the explosion part of the talent doesnt net me more than 0.1% of my dps (much lower than Volcano card).
2% of his damage is from Flame Orb. Little over 2 mil. Getting 2% more on that is 44k damage. Add in hypothetical detonation from talent, and its 60-70k damage. Total. Added.
I dont know whether you ever played fire but you are mistaken. Flame orb damage doesnt have anything to do with Fire power. Even as fire is quite neglectable - the talent itself is only good due to percentage modification to whole fire dps, explosion is load of crap (bonus). Fire power is listed as fire power, not as flame orb. Your best mage in the server doesnt seem to have the crap talent you are so eagerly advocating.

4 lowest damage on Alysrazor parse (i am in fire):
Mirror image frostbolt 0.3%
Volcanic destruction 0.2%
Fire power 0.1%
Mirror image fireblast 0.1%

And its always like that. Hell even crap 2p t12 gives me more dps.

PS: Your best mage on the server uses Blizzard. His spec is &*!@ (Nether Vortex lol), so are his glyphs (Slow, Mirror Image, lmao) plus he lacks running speed on boots and is under hit cap. High progress doesnt make you a good theorycrafter - when will people understand that?

Post by Godwolf

I'm going to try to explain something. Try to not take it personally.

One of the problems with an over reliance on theorycraft and the over abundance of information nowdays is that people rarely think of ways to simply become BETTER players. They think, "Hey, my DPS is low. I wonder how I can increase my DPS via stat changes or talent usage." But, most times, what they should be thinking is more along the lines of, "Hm. How can I find a way to decrease the amount of time I'm running around and decrease how little downtime I have while responding to situations?"

How many players have you seen S-keying out of fire who have nearly perfect gearing, augments and rotation? And while I'm seriously not trying to claim this is you, or that your DPS is anything other than ideal, I'm trying to point out that player mechanics are VITAL to a strong raider.

And here you are trading 3% more on a 2% damage ability in favor of a very strong mechanic ability... And you act like, somehow, people using Imp. Blink are relying on a gimmick. Or are bad players who need that extra speed to avoid things. Because YOU don't need it. But who's fault is that? Every fault has at least once place where Imp. Blink is a direct DPS increase because of how you use it.

Shannox: Chasing the dogs around and switching from dogs to boss in later phases. It also helps in the beginning of the fight to get the dog on an inferno trap faster and easier.

Beth: Perhaps not as useful for some, but since I am on Spiderlings nearly by myself, I need to get to each pack as fast as I can (In 10man). It's amazing there.

Ryo: Helping the tank get adds that spawn on healers, getting out of fire novas from the Spark and then moving from the adds to Ryo during the burn phase. Again, less time running, more time doing Arcane Blast.

Alys: Getting to feathers at the start, getting to rings during the tempest thingy.

Bale: It simply gives you a lot more leeway on how close you need to be to the fragment thingies before it's your turn. Instead of positioning yourself 15 yards away, you can be 20-25, even 30 and not feel noticeably out of place.

Not attempted the last two bosses, but I have perfect faith that Improved blink will contribute more DPS to most mages properly using the talent than Fire Power.

Post by 783051

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Godwolf

Now I know that not all fights are a simple tank and spank no movement. But I think that most fights in FL can be done with the regular blink spell to no dps loss. It takes skill, positioning, raid awareness, and a knowledge of the fight. For the people who don't have the experience or knowledge I would say stick with the more arcane side build

I'm sorry, that's just not accurate. It only has to buy you a couple of ABs to completely slaughter Fire power in terms of overall damage. And you're simply not going to convince me you don't ever blink without taking a step or two after the blink without a fraps of it. *shrugs*

Post by 783051

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Post by Godwolf

I can't believe that you can't imagine a way in which Improved Blink is not a crutch, but a direct DPS increase if used intelligently.

Edit:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Zalikqt/talent/secondary

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Lupita/talent/secondary

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Lerisia/talent/secondary

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Trinidy/talent/primary

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Kbell/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alterac-mountains/Thix/simple

Only one other mage that had the 31/7/3 build in the guild.

I mean, if you're going to try to use an example that you're right, I'm wrong because of one player in a guild, couldn't you at least give MORE than one link? Like me? See :)

Post by Zakkhar

I can't believe that you can't imagine a way in which Improved Blink is not a crutch, but a direct DPS increase if used intelligently.

Let baddies stay bad, let them "theorycraft" on their own.
Take a look at the example. She is downing heroic's while we sit here and talk about regular mode.
She has nether vortex and no imp Ae. I repeat = Big progression doesnt mean you play your class optimally.