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Christianity - The Horse that Refuses to Die
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Post by
Adamsm
Couple of their own religion threads already.
Post by
Heckler
You don't need to preach this to me.
I'm not sure how my statements qualify as
preaching
. Maybe I'm misreading your 'tone,' but it sounds like you think I'm attacking you personally in some way, so I won't spend time typing a longer reply which will probably be interpreted the same way.
Post by
TheMediator
I seem to see atheists being a lot more preachy of late than your average person of faith.
See, the thing is, unless an atheist is being preachy, you don't even know he's an atheist. You assume he's an "average person of faith" because he doesn't say anything otherwise and you're raised to believe that is so.
The only sensible test is looking at the preachy-ness of preachy religious folk and preachy atheists. I think you'll agree that preachy religious folk are much more preachy than preachy atheists. If you don't agree... **** you're dumb. I'm not sorry to say that either; it would be negligent of me for you to say you disagree with that statement and not tell you how dumb that makes you look.
Post by
Gone
I seem to see atheists being a lot more preachy of late than your average person of faith.
See, the thing is, unless an atheist is being preachy, you don't even know he's an atheist. You assume he's an "average person of faith" because he doesn't say anything otherwise and you're raised to believe that is so.
The only sensible test is looking at the preachy-ness of preachy religious folk and preachy atheists. I think you'll agree that preachy religious folk are much more preachy than preachy atheists. If you don't agree... **** you're dumb. I'm not sorry to say that either; it would be negligent of me for you to say you disagree with that statement and not tell you how dumb that makes you look.
Well I do disagree, and no im not dumb, and fyi you make yourself look pretty dumb saying that.
If I look at a random person whos not being preachy, I make no assumptions about them, I sont assume they are religious or an atheist. And yes Atheist people who are preachy, especialy on the internet, seem to me to be 10x more preachy than religious people.
"You either agree with me or your dumb" Thank you for proving my point about the atheist mentality
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
296147
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
"Bald is not a style of hair. It is the absence of it."
Reminds me of that one episode of Spongebob with the Weenie Hut Jr.'sLol.
And thanks for painting all people with a certain lack of belief with such a broad brush, Ryajork. Really appreciate it.
Post by
OverZealous
I seem to see atheists being a lot more preachy of late than your average person of faith.
See, the thing is, unless an atheist is being preachy, you don't even know he's an atheist. You assume he's an "average person of faith" because he doesn't say anything otherwise and you're raised to believe that is so.
The only sensible test is looking at the preachy-ness of preachy religious folk and preachy atheists. I think you'll agree that preachy religious folk are much more preachy than preachy atheists. If you don't agree... **** you're dumb. I'm not sorry to say that either; it would be negligent of me for you to say you disagree with that statement and not tell you how dumb that makes you look.
Well I do disagree, and no im not dumb, and fyi you make yourself look pretty dumb saying that.
If I look at a random person whos not being preachy, I make no assumptions about them, I sont assume they are religious or an atheist. And yes Atheist people who are preachy, especialy on the internet, seem to me to be 10x more preachy than religious people.
"You either agree with me or your dumb" Thank you for proving my point about the atheist mentality
Come on, there
really
is no such thing as an "atheist mentality" just as little as there is a "brown-haired person mentality".
Atheist means you do not believe in any deity, being an atheist comes with nothing but the lack of belief. To be an atheist, you do not need to think the sky is green and that computers are in fact Skynet-prototypes.
And also, I'm willing to bet that you, being somewhat(?) religious, take more note to preachy atheists than preachy religious folk, because it proves a point.
Trust me, generally, atheists are less preachy than religious people.
It
may
be, however, that you come across more atheists than believers on the Internet, which would make sense. But don't judge Atheism as a whole based on what you see on the Internet.
Post by
Monday
It may be, however, that you come across more atheists than believers on the Internet, which would make sense. But don't judge Atheism as a whole based on what you see on the Internet.
Don't judge a religion based on it's extremists (not saying you do).
"Bald is not a style of hair. It is the absence of it."
Reminds me of that one episode of Spongebob with the Weenie Hut Jr.'sLol.
And thanks for painting all people with a certain lack of belief with such a broad brush, Ryajork. Really appreciate it.
If you think about it, TheMediator already did that, but called everyone else a dumb ^&*!er to boot. You don't need to preach this to me.
I'm not sure how my statements qualify as
preaching
. Maybe I'm misreading your 'tone,' but it sounds like you think I'm attacking you personally in some way, so I won't spend time typing a longer reply which will probably be interpreted the same way.
You're doing what you think I'm doing ;)
I merely meant that you don't need to tell me that (preach seemed a better word, as it seemed like you were trying to teach me something, but meh) because I already know it. Very much so.
Post by
Heckler
I merely meant that you don't need to tell me that (preach seemed a better word, as it seemed like you were trying to teach me something, but meh) because I already know it. Very much so.
Not at all, I was just trying to justify my own point, or at least show the logical foundation its built on in my own mind. I don't spend much effort trying to 'teach' people, especially not about things that are so... flimsy.
Post by
Skreeran
All the Mediator said was that atheists seem preachy because only the preachy ones get outed as atheists. The quiet, non preachy ones are assumed to be the same as everyone else.
Case in point: According to
HSR's Religion thread
there are
at least
100 atheists on Off Topic, but there's only 5 or 6 of us that consistently argue in these debate threads, but people still claim that "atheists are even more preachy than religious people" because of the small vocal minority. This is not hard to understand.
Don't judge a religion based on it's extremists (not saying you do).I definitely do not. I have my own qualms about Christianity and Islam and so on, but those are because of their fundamental doctrines, not just the behavior of their extremists.
The way I see it, religion as a whole is A) factually incorrect, and B) does more harm than good. Some religions are worse than others (you'll note that I spend a lot more time attacking mainstream Christianity and Judaism than Mormonism or Buddhism, and I'm attack mainstream Islam too if I had enough knowledge to attack it individually), but on the whole, I think religion completely unnecessary. It's incorrect, it's harmful, and all the positive effects it has can be obtained through purely secular means as well, so I seek to dismantle it, one person or one argument at a time.
Post by
Adamsm
The way I see it, religion as a whole is A) factually incorrect, and B) does more harm than good. Some religions are worse than others (you'll note that I spend a lot more time attacking mainstream Christianity and Judaism than Mormonism or Buddhism, and I'm attack mainstream Islam too if I had enough knowledge to attack it individually), but on the whole, I think religion completely unnecessary. It's incorrect, it's harmful, and all the positive effects it has can be obtained through purely secular means as well, so I seek to dismantle it, one person or one argument at a time.
And that's the main reason why people feel the need to strike back at you Skree and others who hold those types of views; you are more or less calling them all ignorant hicks, war mongers, insane and a wide variety of other insults you can add in for anything against a religion.
And while you may believe it's unnecessary, others, including myself, don't; religion adds something to our lives that we enjoy, and we shouldn't be punished for it, just as those who don't believe shouldn't be punished for that disbelief.
Post by
Skreeran
The way I see it, religion as a whole is A) factually incorrect, and B) does more harm than good. Some religions are worse than others (you'll note that I spend a lot more time attacking mainstream Christianity and Judaism than Mormonism or Buddhism, and I'm attack mainstream Islam too if I had enough knowledge to attack it individually), but on the whole, I think religion completely unnecessary. It's incorrect, it's harmful, and all the positive effects it has can be obtained through purely secular means as well, so I seek to dismantle it, one person or one argument at a time.
And that's the main reason why people feel the need to strike back at you Skree and others who hold those types of views; you are more or less calling them all ignorant hicks, war mongers, insane and a wide variety of other insults you can add in for anything against a religion.
And while you may believe it's unnecessary, others, including myself, don't; religion adds something to our lives that we enjoy, and we shouldn't be punished for it, just as those who don't believe shouldn't be punished for that disbelief.I'm not violating your rights, and I'm not advocating the banning of religion.
I simply believe religion to be an unnecessary and dangerous force in the world, and am taking what steps I can to stop it. Namely: trying to get people to stop believing in it.
I'm not banging on your door in the morning, or standing on a soapbox on at the corner and shouting; I'm debating inside a Wowhead thread that yo do not have to come into if you do not want to hear me. You're going to find it hard to convince me that what I am doing is wrong.
Post by
Adamsm
Um, Skree, look at the first line of your response, then look at your second....you are more less trying to remove religion from everyone, whether they want you to or not.
Yes, I do have the choice of not coming here....but at the same time, I also have the right to stick up for my own beliefs. I'm not trying to change your mind; your beliefs are yours, mine are mine, and neither one of us are going to change the others mind.
However, at the same time, being aggressive and in their face don't help your point, just makes them think they are in the right and you are in the wrong...and vice versa of course.
Edit: After all, wasn't that one of the things you disliked about debating against HSR?
Post by
Skreeran
Like I said, I believe religion is an unnecessary and dangerous force in the world. I'm not trying to get it banned, or force you to stop believing against your will, I am trying to persuade you that you are wrong through logic and critical reasoning. I don't see anything wrong with that.
I try not to be aggressive and in your face. I have been in the past (like my "Hell" thread). I am very emotionally invested in the topic, as much as I would prefer not to be, and have before let my passion regarding the subject lead me to anger and vengefulness. I regret that. My goal is not to be aggressive and in your face, but to be calm and reasonable and present strong, valid points in my favor.
Edit:
Semi-off-topic: Watching a documentary of sorts on the Boy Scouts. It bothers me that they refuse to let Atheists and homosexuals in thanks to Religious Right's manipulation.
Post by
Adamsm
But you are arguing against a person's faith: I don't think it's possible to ever actually break that. Some people need to believe that there is something more then what exists in the world, something greater, something that we are all part of.
But let's be completely completely honest here Skree: You could have unshakable proof from every big name scientist the world over, all of the major religions could declare that every thing is false....and I'd still have my faith no matter what.
You've had a crap shoot with it; no one will deny that(or at least they shouldn't), but you may think that the way you put forth your views on the topic are not completely without prejudice. And like I said, every strong point you have, someone will have a strong point for the opposite side; there is no way to win at something like this when it comes down to the pure faith.
Post by
Skreeran
But you are arguing against a person's faith: I don't think it's possible to ever actually break that. Some people need to believe that there is something more then what exists in the world, something greater, something that we are all part of.
But let's be completely completely honest here Skree: You could have unshakable proof from every big name scientist the world over, all of the major religions could declare that every thing is false....and I'd still have my faith no matter what.That is what is called being closed-minded, and it is the single worst attribute of religion in my humble opinion.
Knowing that no amount of evidence can change your mind is a terrible way to learn and grow as a civilization. Even scientific laws are flexible, so that if new evidence that contradicted them were to arise, they'd have to be redesigned. I am confident that there is very little someone could say to get me to change my mind on the subject of religion, but I still remain open to new evidence, should it ever arise. If incontrovertible evidence for God's existence (say, Jesus returning, or my passing into the afterlife) were to appear, I must admit that I'd be hesitant to accept it, but I would still remain open to the idea that I was wrong.
Religion, on the other hand, rarely maintains an open mind, and if the evidence suggests it is wrong (e.g. the universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 6000), then it is the
evidence
which must be wrong. This kind of cognitive bias is a plague on humanity, in my eyes, and must be dealt with.
You've had a crap shoot with it; no one will deny that(or at least they shouldn't),And I do appreciate that you acknowledge that.
but you may think that the way you put forth your views on the topic are not completely without prejudice. And like I said, every strong point you have, someone will have a strong point for the opposite side; there is no way to win at something like this when it comes down to the pure faith.That is to say, there's no way to convince someone of something that they'd already closed their mind to.
When I lost my faith, I made a promise to myself. I told myself "I do not know if there is a god. If I can't trust what my parents have told me, then I can only trust what I can see and touch."
Obviously, there are many things I believe exist that I can't actually see or touch, like black holes, but that's not the point. The point is, I believe the evidence. Rather than coming to a conclusion, and then holding to that conclusion in spite of the evidence, I examine the evidence first and then come to a conclusion. If more evidence comes along that falsifies my conclusion, I must come to a new conclusion. That is how science works.
Closed-minded blind belief gets us nowhere.
Post by
Adamsm
That is what is called being closed-minded, and it is the single worst attribute of religion in my humble opinion.I have to respectfully disagree there Skree; but meh, this is just going to go in major circles from here on out.
That is to say, there's no way to convince someone of something that they'd already closed their mind to.I.....I'm sorry Skree, but you have the same attitude there; you may say your mind is open, but it's just as closed as anyone else.
Post by
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
gnomerdon
I simply believe religion to be an unnecessary and dangerous force in the world, and am taking what steps I can to stop it. Namely: trying to get people to stop believing in it.
To get people to stop believing in it is already raising red lights. It doesn't sound bad from your point of view but from a religious believer, it is a direct attack.
Have you felt the holy spirit before? :D
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