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The first patch I've missed... it's weird.
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Post by
vykas
As a side note, in complete unrelation to WoW or Real ID...if your friend is so bothered by his name, why hasn't he had it legally changed? Situations like this are among the reason why it's a possibility.
Because they are lazy? Or they aren't ready to come out yet? My guild had trans-gendered folks in it (I guess they were more out than your buddy Jessica) that had their names legally changed. This would solve all your problems.
Now I don't normally speak out in these types of conversations but I thought I'd add my two cents. If this so-called "Jessica" has actually transitioned then he should have made all the appropriate changes to his birth name. Even if he hasn't transitioned he still has several legal courses of action which would alleviate this. Which makes the "Because lazy" argument pretty valid and thus making the argument you're trying to get across, Seebs, moot.
I'm all for racial and gender equality, but to use it in this argument seems baseless and ignorant especially since your example is of a "friend." You obviously aren't going to be convinced one way or the other of this fact, so I won't argue it with you. Just simply stating my thoughts on this.
Post by
seebs
if your friend is so bothered by his name, why hasn't he had it legally changed? Situations like this are among the reason why it's a possibility.
Because they are lazy? Or they aren't ready to come out yet? My guild had trans-gendered folks in it (I guess they were more out than your buddy Jessica) that had their names legally changed. This would solve all your problems.
At least around here, it's pretty hard to get your name changed if you haven't already done most of the physical conversion. (For various reasons, my friend is unlikely to do that.)
Solution: Have Jessica add YOU to their REAL ID list. Invite no one else.
Still uses both of our real names in game, no?
You probably don't know this but only YOU see Jessica. Jessica doesn't see her own name on the Real ID. Now if YOU have a problem with that name showing up, I don't know what to tell you. Hint: Don't ever call your friend Jessica.
I don't.
Even if my friend never sees the name, knowing it's there is still freaky and upsetting.
Again, I don't know what the big deal is.
Right.
But you know what? You don't
have
to understand that it's a big deal, technically. It is, in fact, part of life that sometimes something is upsetting to other people even though it doesn't make sense to you. It is not, for the most part, useful to insist that they shouldn't be upset, or to make fun of them for being upset.
I get your crusade, but I think you should do more research before making a big deal out of something that doesn't even directly effect you.
It directly affects me, if not a huge amount -- I don't like or use my legal name either. Not 'cuz I particularly object to it, just that everyone calls me by a nickname.
Well, that, and it also affects me because I'm a roleplayer, and I find modern names jarring in WoW. I would
rather
see people under nicknames. :)
Blizz has said many times they wanted to enforce real names on the official forums to reduce the amount of troll posts.
Yes, they did. Do you honestly believe them? I sure don't. No one's that stupid.
People have found ways around it, but you don't want to "stoup" down to that level I guess.
I don't much like to try to fake things. I also don't think I should have to.
You sound like a boyscout that's fighting the fight just to fight the fight.
I don't fight for the sake of fighting. However, I have very low tolerance for even relatively minor unfairness to anyone.
People should realize boycotting generally doesn't work for such large giant corps unless you have the majority in your favor.
I do realize that. You'll note that I'm not boycotting. A boycott is a refusal to spend money somewhere undertaken with intent to compel a change in behavior. I'm not doing that.
In this case you are the very extreme minority.
I'm not at all convinced. There's a whole lot of levels of happiness/unhappiness with Real ID. So far as I can tell, the vast majority of players would
prefer
nicknames -- they just don't prefer it all that strongly. An awful lot of people either don't use the feature, or don't use it with more than a couple of people -- suggesting that it doesn't do a very good job of meeting needs.
People with one or more transgendered friends who play WoW and haven't got legal name changes but find their legal names upsetting? Extreme minority.
People who would quit over Blizzard's bad behavior in the Real ID thing? Certainly a minority, and certainly a very very small minority of people
who are still hanging around the forums
-- most of them are just gone.
People who dislike Real ID as it stands now enough that they won't use it, and are uncomfortable with it, or want it turned off? Probably a minority, although a large enough minority that Blizzard has felt the need to respond.
People who think Real ID as it stands now is badly implemented and that the real name thing is really stupid and a sort of big deal, but not big enough to keep them from using it? Probably a minority.
People who think the real name thing is stupid and it would be better to allow nicknames? So far as I can tell, that's a solid majority.
People who genuinely think it would be
worse
if you allowed nicknames? A minority.
People who would be upset enough to avoid the feature, or quit the game, or in any way react negatively if Real ID allowed nicknames? I doubt there's even one out there.
Post by
seebs
Now I don't normally speak out in these types of conversations but I thought I'd add my two cents. If this so-called "Jessica" has actually transitioned then he should have made all the appropriate changes to his birth name. Even if he hasn't transitioned he still has several legal courses of action which would alleviate this.
Does he? I didn't know you were a lawyer licensed to practice in my state.
He hasn't transitioned, and (for various reasons) isn't likely to for quite a long time. It turns out, having the wrong name for credit cards and stuff is less of a hassle than having a male name and obvious *!@#s.
Which makes the "Because lazy" argument pretty valid
Not really. This isn't something where any reasonable amount of effort without huge side-effects and problematic ramifications will solve the problem. Jesse shouldn't have to undertake a major and expensive legal course of action which may or may not be even legally allowed in this state in order to be able to use a convenience feature in a video game, when it would have been much simpler for everyone concerned to just use nicknames.
I'm all for racial and gender equality, but to use it in this argument seems baseless and ignorant especially since your example is of a "friend."
This seems incoherent. You are presumably trying to imply something with the scare quotes, but I don't know what it would be. Yes, this person is my friend. No, it's not me. (It would take all of 30 seconds for you to find out my legal name, and it ain't "Jessica".)
I have other friends who have been affected by this in similar ways; I picked this particular one because it was the simplest and clearest of them.
Post by
444854
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
166665
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
seebs
On a certain level I understand your situation and base sentiments are on your side but don't understand not playing because of the Real I.D. requirements as there are other means to do what you want with Real I.D.
Okay, here's the thing.
If playing didn't cost anything, sure, I'd still play and just not use it.
But the people at Blizzard have responded to concerns from people who really, really, don't want to use their legal names, but do want to be able to track friends cross-server/cross-faction, with a big resounding "screw you".
I don't feel like paying money to them anymore.
I also don't feel comfortable investing time in developing characters and building relationships inside WoW when Blizzard has since commented on the forums thing that they won't do that "for the time being", and has never once admitted that, just maybe, some of the complaints had some kind of merit to them.
So far, all they've said is "if enough of you cancel your accounts at once, we'll stop temporarily."
I guess that's the thing. Blizzard have been acting in a way that I don't want to pay money to support. They have been acting in a way that has made the game no longer feel like a pleasant and safe opportunity to go play in a fantasy world. It now feels like a social networking thing, and while I sometimes want to do those, I sometimes don't.
This is similar to why I killed my facebook account; facebook kept introducing new ways of sharing data, and turning them on by default. I could, with daily logins to check for new features, turn off the new stuff, but it fundamentally became a chore; it required constant vigilance to keep it from sharing stuff that I hadn't authorized it to share.
Until I see some evidence that Blizzard seriously gets the privacy issues here, I would have that same "looking over my shoulder" feeling about any possible new patches; at any time, Blizzard might spring another new surprise on us. And that's the thing. It's not just about whether or not I have this feature; it's about what the implementation and public statements from Blizzard tell me about the new direction of their management.
What if, what if Real I.D. did not force your real name, and you was completely happy with it, and so you would use it and continue to play the game, but, I tell you that certain government agencies are using Wow as a means to track people, their play styles, group dynamics, interactions and communications both in-game and out, and any number of other possible tracking considerations? What then?
Interesting question. I'm not a big fan of my government at the moment. On the other hand, I'm not sure how practical it would be to try to avoid them tracking us right now. There's a sort of lack of viable alternatives.
Would you be appalled? What if I said that certain government agencies are tracking Wow but only too root out terrorists and it's for your own good? Is it any better now, since it's for your safety?
I'd actually think that was worse. I trust them less when they use the big emotional buzzwords.
Now, let us suppose that certain government agencies are tracking Wow, for whatever reason, and that Real I.D., as it stands now, is a part of that. What then?
Then they're being stupid, because they don't need the game to use real names for them to know the names on the accounts. :) They don't benefit from the real name thing; the game could use nicknames and the feds could still track people by real names, presumably.
Post by
seebs
Wait so you played before real i.d, and when real i.d came out you quit?
Yes.
So usually when something optional is added to something like a game, that you don't like, you just don't do/use it.
That's not how I usually do things. If someone adds special privileges for some people to a product or service, I tend to stop doing business with them.
If someone was trans-gendered there is no "coming out".
Actually, there is. You may be thinking of transsexual (having been converted physically from one sex to another), not transgendered (being cognitively of the opposite gender from your body).
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
seebs
This is ideological propaganda. Gender is chromosomal.
There is a demonstrated need for distinctions between chromosomes, genitalia, and self-image. The convention adopted was to use "sex" for body type and "gender" for self-image, and chromosome names for chromosomes. There are people who are clearly female in both sex and gender, but who have XY chromosomes (androgen insensitivity), and so on. The X-vs-Y thing covers the majority of cases, but there are millions of counterexamples out there.
Basically, not everyone fits nicely into the two simple bins. We needed words for the distinctions, words were picked. It's just science, not ideology. Claims about whether such people are good or bad could be ideology; picking words to refer to demonstrably separate measurable things is not.
Post by
671564
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lorkin
This just basically says to me that even presented a solution, you're just fighting the fight.
You probably don't know this but only YOU see Jessica. Jessica doesn't see her own name on the Real ID. Now if YOU have a problem with that name showing up, I don't know what to tell you. Hint: Don't ever call your friend Jessica.
I don't.
Even if my friend never sees the name,
knowing it's there is still freaky and upsetting.
Does your "friend" freak out when they have to use their real name on a job application, filling out forms, credit card statements? Really, this is your best reason to hate Real ID? It's not even believable.
What happens when they are reminded of other "things" after a shower in the morning? Does (s)he pass out?
The crutch of your whole issue with Real ID is staying anonymous and as people have said it's possible in game already. They introduce a new feature that's completely against your core that's optional and you freak out and quit. You don't want to take any steps to find a solution around this.
The really stupid part about this whole thing, is that even though you HATE Blizzard for not listening to you, you can't stay away from the cheddar they put out. As been said by
Russell Peters
: "Be a Man" and just enjoy CoH. Stop stalking around the wow forums.
Post by
seebs
This just basically says to me that even presented a solution, you're just fighting the fight.
Which in turn says to me that you're not understanding the description of the problem.
Does your "friend"
Why do you keep using scare qutoes?
freak out when they have to use their real name on a job application, filling out forms, credit card statements?
Yup.
Really, this is your best reason to hate Real ID? It's not even believable.
It doesn't have to be believable to you. It just has to be real.
What happens when they are reminded of other "things" after a shower in the morning? Does (s)he pass out?
Most of the transgendered people I know shower less often than other people, because they find showers stressful and upsetting, yes.
The crutch of your whole issue with Real ID is staying anonymous
No, it's not. (Also, I think you mean "crux", not "crutch".)
They introduce a new feature that's completely against your core that's optional and you freak out and quit.
Again, you're missing a key component. They're introducing a feature
which I very much want to be able to use
, but they've chosen to implement it in a way that makes it not work.
You don't want to take any steps to find a solution around this.
I'd love to "find a solution". So far, several people here have presented one: Get Blizzard to change the name on the account. That might, indeed, be a solution
if it were actually possible
, but it's not. And yet, people keep offering it as a solution.
I'd love a solution. A solution is a way for me to keep in touch with friends across all their alts including those on other factions or servers, which allows either or both of the people involved to choose not to use their current legal name. If you have one, great, lemme know about it. If you don't, though, then it's sorta silly for you to claim that I don't want to find a solution -- if there isn't one, not much finding to do, is there?
The really stupid part about this whole thing, is that even though you HATE Blizzard for not listening to you, you can't stay away from the cheddar they put out.
I don't hate them, I just think they're doing something stupid.
I really do like it when WoW players lecture me on how stupid it is that I think WoW is interesting.
Post by
seebs
hey, it's your opinion to quit over something that does not affect you at all
First, it's not an opinion, it's a course of action.
Secondly, it does in fact affect me. Perhaps not
directly
, but it certainly affects me.
Post by
Lorkin
I'd love a solution. A solution is a way for me to keep in touch with friends across all their alts including those on other factions or servers, which allows either or both of the people involved to choose not to use their current legal name. If you have one, great, lemme know about it. If you don't, though, then it's sorta silly for you to claim that I don't want to find a solution -- if there isn't one, not much finding to do, is there?
Here
are
a
few
solutions
I
can
think
of
.
Honestly I don't think you even want a solution. Keep in mind that Real ID can't keep track of folks outside of Blizzard games, unless that's all you play . . .
Post by
seebs
Honestly I don't think you even want a solution. Keep in mind that Real ID can't keep track of folks outside of Blizzard games, unless that's all you play . . .
Ah, I see. No, I mean, a solution for in-game alt tracking. Outside of the games, we just use VoN2. And that works, but while playing it's awfully nice being able to track alts and use the in-game chat to chat, since that's what we're already using.
Actually, right now, the "solution" we're using is that we play CoH, since that has global friend handles that work exactly as you'd expect them to.
Post by
349490
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
seebs
Fake name for RealID.
Problem solved. If you call Blizz support, they usually don't care if you want to change the name on your account. I hear of a guy who had his RealID changed to Lizzie McGuire for the $%^&s and gigs.
My RealID name was Jesus Christ for the longest.
How did you arrange that? Had you originally created the account that way, or did you get the name changed?
Post by
349490
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
seebs
Originally I had made my battlenet account as a joke, this was when they first started to push the whole linking of battlenet and WoW accounts. I just stuck with it.
You know, if I'd known back then that they were going to use the name on the account for in-game stuff with other players, I might well have picked a different name too.
(Heh, captcha had "gankers" as one of its words.)
Post by
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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