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Seriously, how is WoW being dumbed down!
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Post by
pgh1980
Awesome just what we needed! WoW is too easy thread #5408650983692349
Where did I say that? Either you have a serious problem with basic reading comprehension or you saw the title, barely skimmed a post or too, and jumped to an unfounded conclusion. But hey, either way you get to bring your post count up, so you should go ahead and pat yourself on the back despite your asinine comment.
Post by
166665
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Post by
Murrdurr
Awesome just what we needed! WoW is too easy thread #5408650983692349
Where did I say that? Either you have a serious problem with basic reading comprehension or you saw the title, barely skimmed a post or too, and jumped to an unfounded conclusion. But hey, either way you get to bring your post count up, so you should go ahead and pat yourself on the back despite your asinine comment.
*pats self on back*
Post by
428774
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Post by
Monjaru
Basically gonna agree with all the people who said "WoW isn't being 'dumbed down', it's just changing to be less time-consuming."
Long-ass attunement quest chains, endless hours of grinding heroics/lower tier raids to progress on to more interesting content, having to fight with half a dozen other people over every single drop you happen to want/need; who needs the frustration?
The changes to stats also hardly affects players IQ aside from those who
live
to theory-craft and number-crunch BiS gear pieces.
Post by
Kezface
I think they had it almost perfect in TBC, aside from the first tier of content being made for 10 man and the rest 25. back in TBC, me and my guild had kara on farm for about a year, we couldve got higher, but we were casuals. best time of my wow experience was going there, or even gruuls/maggy if we felt like it, just because everything wasnt handed out to us, imagine our guild, a few groups going into heroic slave pens, coming out in full t6 and going and farming KJ for the rest of the expansion. Seeing players running around in t6 was great, it showed the level of commitment they gave to there guild, and the hardwork for they put in for that gear was shown and respected. Now you hit 80 farm heroics for a week max and there you go, your the lich kings worst nightmare, the most powerful being the warcraft universe has ever seen, killed by a group of untrained, ungeared soldiers. Awesome, Was there really any point of Naxx, uld and ToC, seeing all bar ToC gear is highly outdated, useless in the eyes of most, The only ever reason people still set foot in there is the one boss for the weekly.
The grind is part of the fun. its not fun to have everything handed out to you on a platter, This is what MMO's are about. If you want a quick and easy run go play some bog standard fps.
Thanks for ruining the game, whining kids
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303152
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248019
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428774
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527562
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131584
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Post by
Denkou
Two words: AoE Faceroll. That's what 5-mans are these days. No CC is required and little to no effort needs to be put forth by the players. DPSing? You don't even need a proper rotation, just mash whatever, and you'll do fine.
The quickest level 60 instance was probably UBRS, which took maybe 45 minutes with a good group. Sure, the instances were long and CC was necessary, but it also provided a MUCH greater feeling of accomplishment once you finished a run. If one person didn't CC a mob, things could go terribly wrong, and it really was a group effort with clearly defined roles.
Things are much faster nowadays. Sure, faster = better. But when it gets so dumbed down to the point where it's an AoE faceroll spam the entire, what, 20 minutes it takes to do a Heroic these days? If I wanted mindless action, I'd go play Dynasty Warriors or something. Getting loot faster and easier is great, but it really takes away from the experience as a whole.
I know 5-mans aren't the epitome of progression, but because there are so many of them and it's what most people do when they're not raiding, it's a good representation of what is happening to the WoW playerbase. The average player knows less about their class and game mechanics today than they did 2 years ago. Ask someone to use CC and chances are they won't know what you're talking about. And again, back to CC; I know most of you guys don't like CC, and I agree that things are much faster when you're just AoEing everything until it drops dead, but where is the accomplishment in that? Loot is great, but I want to feel like I actually EARNED it, rather than mashing random buttons for 20 minutes and winning a roll.
*Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that AoE should be removed entirely from the game, but I feel that AoE should have the same place that it once did: a situational use, not a constant one. An instance like Shattered Halls? No way should groups be able to AoE plow their way through that in 30 minutes.
Post by
261020
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237563
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Post by
vic6string
I love these people that say you can be uber-geared from just five mans in a few days. You do know that it takes a good amount of time to get all lvl232 gear right? And yes, you can get 245s from badges, but it isn't like you get 10 badges per boss. And yes, you can get some nice pieces of 264 from badges, but if you don't get into ICC, you are very limited in how many frost emblems you can get. And being in all 232 with a few 245s don't guarantee you a spot in an ICC except for maybe the last second Monday night alt raids that rarely get past Saurfang (if that far). The way some people make it sound, you'd think you can ding 80, go to TOC, run it twice and suddenly you have a 6k gearscore.
Making it easier to get decent gear was needed to get new people into the game. It is hard selling your friends on the idea of paying 15 bucks a month to start now, and telling them that when they get to 80 they will be hopelessly behind the people who have already been playing for years and will not be allowed into groups to get geared enough just to catch up. I like anything that brings new people and new subscriptions to the game because I like the game and want to see it stick around for a good while longer.
Post by
303152
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Post by
xaratherus
Actually is DOES. That IS exactly what "dumbed down" means.
1.
dumb down
"revise so as to appeal to those of little education or intelligence
2.
Simplified
"To make easier to understand."
To reword it, you could say that Blizzard is 1. "revise(ing) so as to" 2."make easier to understand"
Your rewording specifically leaves out a key point of the definition of "dumbed down" - the part about "of little education or intelligence". The average player isn't necessarily low in intelligence.
There's a huge difference between dumbing something down and simplifying it. You've mashed together two definitions to fit your argument, while leaving out a key piece of the first definition because it invalidates your argument.
As an example: A till at McDonald's that has nothing but little pictograms on it, rather than words, because the teenage employees are illiterate? That's dumbed-down. A similar register (with actual word labels rather than pictures) being revamped so that the layout is based on the frequency with which certain orders and requests are made? That's simplified.
Some people ENJOY the aspect of figuring out/theory-crafting multiple min/max specs. This is being really simplified come Cata.
Actually, even that's incorrect - it's being
reverted
. They're taking the stats back to something more akin to how the game started, because with all the stats they've added, itemization has become a nightmare for them, and has made theory-crafting required in order to not get laughed out of a raid (a bit of an exaggeration, but nonetheless).
People who enjoy figuring/theory-crafting feel this is a major change in the game that will impact THIER enjoyment of the game.
None of the changes that I've seen have led me to believe that the theory-crafters will have all their toys yanked away from them. Many of these stats will still exist - it's only the way that you'll get the stats that will be different.
If anything, I would think that the addition of the passive talent masteries will add a whole new level of complication to theory-crafting, as the brainy boys start to grind away at whether or not it's better to push to get X% mastery bonus if you have to pass up Y talent to do so.
How would the average player, without any outside help, spreadsheets, etc. be able to tell if the item with more armpen is better than the one with more str?
Simple trail and error? You can't be bothered to figure it out or EVEN LOOK IT UP? Were do we stop? Should people just log in and suddenly have the best gear on automatically, as you know the average player won’t be doing max hard mode raids the day they join WoW. Heaven forbid we don't change the game to cater to them!
Slippery slope much? If you can't see the massive gap between "having to do research for a
game
" and "giving a god-mode code to every player", then I'm not sure what to tell you.
Many of the current combat attributes are incredibly cryptic - armor penetration being one of them. "Figuring it out" requires a massive amount of number-crunching. As for looking it up? The concept of doing research for a game is something almost unique to MMOs; frankly, the way I look at it is that if you have to have your audience providing huge Wikis and spreadsheets and external apps simply to figure out what stat is best, and when, then your game design is flawed.
Post by
drame
if ya ask me, make more out of the hardmode stuff, if possible make a 1-10 scale of how you want your raid. 1 being easy mode and 10 hardmode. Then people could stop complaining about how easy/hard wow is as they could just pick the rating that fits them and their groups/pugs etc.
Still even though that dictionary says dumbed down also fits with simplified, well i dont really agree on that definition. Sometimes the best things in life are the simplest :P
just my oppinion ofc.
p.s
wow was never hard, just took alot of time.
Post by
Gnub
Simplified does not make it dumbed down.
Actually is DOES. That IS exactly what "dumbed down" means.
1.
dumb down
"revise so as to appeal to those of little education or intelligence
2.
Simplified
"To make easier to understand."
... And those two definitions aren't the same. Dumbing down is
a way
of simplifying, but that doesn't mean that simplifying is dumbing down.
Post by
xaratherus
if ya ask me, make more out of the hardmode stuff
Agreed. Classically, RPGs have had straightforward game play that anyone can enjoy - augmented with side quests, incredibly tough optional bosses, and other odd challenges for the player who wants a huge challenge.
I feel that's how Blizzard is starting to view WoW, and I think it's a good design direction. I'm just not sure that they've thrown in
enough
optional bosses and challenges to satisfy the appetites of the elite crowd.
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