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Taruen vs blood elf?
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Post by
80642
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Post by
Quest
Lorewise, the Tauren aren't becoming paladin's, they're becoming
Sunwalkers
. They are (from what I gather) tapping into the druidic magic of the sun An'she and using it to become warriors of light (
not
the same Holy Light the alliance races worship).
Also, Blood Elf paladins are not paladin's either, they're
Blood Knights
.
Game mechanic wise, yes, they are paladins, but lorewise they are not.
Blood Knight or not the lore behind them is that they actually stole a being of the light and drained it of power. After that being was gone the new lore is that the magistrates that were draining it of power are still giving off the light as an aura, drunk off of it, and that still provides the Blood Elf race with enough for a prospective BE paladin to learn how to wield it.
The freak'n cows have the sun? They can name it some retarded crap if they want but its all horrible lore and a huge copout in terms of writing any sort of enthralling story. Sun worship = Druid.
They be doing Secret Cow Level 2.0 ALL WRONG.
Post by
Monday
The question I have to ask is that you think non-Tauren paladins get their powers from a light source then? Because the word "light" doesn't refer to a actual souce of illumination as in the sun. It refers to an intangible system of belief that grants powers to them.
Not trying to argue your point just trying to clarify. If that is the case I still think it is a crap story that Bliz could have done better with as even before this people would often say how paladins were sun worshippers when this isn't the case. Unfortunately this only reinforces this in some peoples minds for all paladins not just Tauren.
The Sun isn't just the sun though, it is part of a goddess. It is divine. Paladins use divine power.
Well, by the whole An'she argument, nelfs should be able to go all pally for Elune. Not their M.O. though.
Elune is a moon goddess only, while the Earth Mother is moon/sun/earth.
And yes stnly I wouldn't mind seeing Forsaken paladins sometime in the future, but they would need a major, major change to be able to become so. Some see redemption as becoming Higher Beings, and some see it as they are granted true death. I don't know either way.
And Quest, I'm not even going to argue with you anymore. You are good at paladin mechanics, I won't argue that, but you are a jackass who can't admit he's wrong.
Post by
Quest
Greetings. I come before you today with a plea. I realize that even in this very early stage of development, a change such as this would be considered rather large. However, I feel it is immensely important and would like to have a few moments of your time to at least consider this proposal.
As you have no doubt surmised from the title of this thread, I would really like to see the new horde paladin race be Forsaken rather than tauren. There are multiple reasons behind this, which I'll touch on here.
First off, there's been a whole lot of drama about some of the new class-race combos lore-wise. Tauren paladins and night elf mages, among others, come to mind. For the most part, this has been dismissed by the "desperate times call for desperate measures" excuse.
That absolutely does not work in the case of a tauren paladin. History has taught us that the wake of a catastrophe only strengthens the convictions of a community, particularly in the case of religion. Tauren suddenly turning their back on shamanism and to the Light is confusing and preposterous. The tension between the race, split in its beliefs, would vastly weaken tauren as a whole and create an awkward, false sense of unease both in game and when looking at the lore from and outsider's point of view. It is a classic case of Blizzard deciding what they want and making up the lore for it afterward.
Why the Forsaken was not the obvious choice for a horde paladin to begin with is beyond me. Not only is the lore for it already built in, it makes way for some pretty epic story telling and quest lines. Humans, once followers of the light, fallen in battle and risen from the dead to do the bidding of the scourge now wander free... seeking redemption in the light. Undead paladins would be fantastic and, unlike tauren, would create a natural tension between horde and ally paladins rather than an awkward false one. Alliance humans unsure of what to make of these Forsaken reborn of scourge magic seeking the holy Light once more. There's some great stuff in here.
Not only is there some great lore, but there's also a chance to help take paladins a step in the right direction. Let's not kid ourselves, paladins have been a running joke since World of Warcraft came out. It's unfortunate, seeing as we ARE the lore class in this game. Most all of WoW's story revolves around paladins. While I'm fine with the jokes about nerfs and OPness, bubble hearths and the lot, devoting an entire race to be a joke is a bit insulting. Making up some lore to give the horde a "big" paladin to match the daenei is probably not far off from why Blizzard chose the tauren over the Forsaken, and I'm not really a big fan of that. I realize there are those of you who are looking forward to exactly that, and to those of you I pose the question: after the initial novelty of your "holy cow" wears off, what will be left?
As I mentioned above, the lore they made up makes zero sense, so I'm kind of at a loss for what other reasons they had. Including "holy cow" in the official announcement kind of validated this claim to me. I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm all for WoW humor. That's what makes this game great - Blizz is fantastic about mixing the right amount of seriousness and humor. But this is taking it a step too far.
Blizzard, please consider changing tauren paladins to Forsaken paladins in the next expansion. It wouldn't be the first time you've made a change after announcing something. *coughplainsrunningisstillinthemaunualcough*
Thank you very much for your time.
Invisusira
Smolderthorn, US
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=2&t=25782&rb_v=viewtopic
PS. For anyone still going on about
undead
paladins = Deathknights:
Sir Zeliek
, a paladin in life, so strong in his faith, that even in undeath, the power of the light still heeds his call, smiting his foes in battle.
Forsaken != undead. There is a difference lorewise.
Tauren do not hold the type of redemption nor vengeance thusly that forges the will to call the light. Indeed what to Tauren have to be more than a simple warrior about? They have no vengeance, no reason for redemption. Paladins have seals for a reason. What does a tauren need to seal?
Freshness?
Post by
Monday
That's not a Blizzard poster though, its one person's opinion.
I see what you mean about different opinions and we can't tell who's right or wrong etc...
Except for one thing:
There are no Forsaken Paladins. Paladins are immune to the undead plague, and if they die and are rezzed they become Death Knights.
As paladins were immune to the Plague (and indeed all diseases)
I'm sorry I hope I don't come off as an idiot, regarding my post at the top of the page.
Post by
Quest
That's not a Blizzard poster though, its one person's opinion.
I see what you mean about different opinions and we can't tell who's right or wrong etc...
Except for one thing:
There are no Forsaken Paladins. Paladins are immune to the undead plague, and if they die and are rezzed they become Death Knights.
As paladins were immune to the Plague (and indeed all diseases)
I'm sorry I hope I don't come off as an idiot, regarding my post at the top of the page.
Alright..
1. You make a point that my link isnt a 'Blizzard Poster"
2. You link me wiki lore doubtfully made by a Blizzard employee.
3. Confusion as to how you're not conflicting here.
Although I don't think your first statement is relevant at all, as people that work at blizzard though evil and vile creatures are human too, so your second point would be more valid, except paladins being immune from the plague really doesn't seem right to me in the least. However I cant think of a paladin death via plague on the spot
(Edit: Didnt Bolvar Fordragon die from altered Putress plague before he was cast into an undeath via the fires of Alexstrasza? And he was one of the most powerful paladins to live)
, although I will say that most people are not born paladins, they become one though training, or a massive upset in their personal lives that drives them to it, or its evil twin DeathKnight.
I will go on to say that Forsaken now are going to have a Massive hole in why the hell they are even around in Cata. If only they could fill the hole of finished revenge and truly become redeemed... *coughthelightcough*. I mean if you level one, that's all they ever talk about. Redemption and vengeance.
Here is another good point from that thread and is part of my irk with having a hard time forcing this into place.
Natural
Peaceful
Respectful
These are not the traits of a Paladin in Warcraft (ok, I'll grant you respectful but it's not a necessary trait, as the Blood Knights showed us).
Hateful
Vengeful
Uncaring
These ARE traits of Paladins it Warcraft.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=2&t=25782&rb_v=viewtopic&start=405#p509061
Bottemline
: I know why Blizzard is doing this, its a catering to the people that want a Spacegoat 'big paladin' for horde. Its catering to the anthro crowd. Blizzard is a business, and Im not going to fool myself into thinking they will change their mind when their bottemline is $$$, but im also not going to take their half-ass lore and eat it like a
delicious steak.
Post by
Monday
Hateful
Vengeful
Uncaring
These ARE traits of Paladins it Warcraft.
"Remember, Arthas, we are paladins. Vengeance cannot be a part of what we must do. If we allow our passions to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the Orcs."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottemline: I know why Blizzard is doing this, its a catering to the people that want a Spacegoat 'big paladin' for horde. Its catering to the anthro crowd. Blizzard is a business, and Im not going to fool myself into thinking they will change their mind when their bottemline is $$$, but im also not going to take their half-ass lore and eat it like a delicious steak.
Same. I don't like Tauren or Forsaken or Blood Elf Paladins, or Draenei shamans.
I like Human/Dwarf/possibly High Elf paladins and Orc/Troll/Tauren Shamans.
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470626
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Post by
Badaccus
http://www.wowwiki.com/Paladin
Taken directly from there
Paladins are the virtuous defenders of the weak and tireless, unfaltering enemies of the undead. Mixing elements of the warrior and the clerics of the Holy Light, the paladin is a tough melee fighter. The tradition of the Holy Light is unique to a few of the Alliance races and the blood elves of the Horde.
The paladin is a "warrior of the Holy Light". They uphold all that is good and true in the world and revile all that is evil and sinister —
especially undead and the Burning Legion.
They offer succor to the beleaguered and smite their enemies with holy fervor. They are particularly potent against undead, as these creatures threaten the goodly races and the Holy Light burns them terribly. The presence of any evil is reprehensible to the paladin, but he focuses his efforts on destroying undead and demons. These warriors uphold the tenets of the Holy Light and defend the Alliance from the predations of any threat to their peoples. Found in almost every corner of Azeroth fighting the forces of evil and barbarism, these stalwart warriors of faith ceaselessly uphold their vigil against demonic forces from beyond the Dark Portal. Humans, draenei, and Ironforge dwarves are the most likely to become paladins, as these races revere the Holy Light. Blood elves known as Blood Knights bend the powers of the Light to their will, though rumor has it they have recently begun to use the Light legitimately. The paladin order, also called the Knights of the Silver Hand, grew out of humanity’s culture, and its greatest heroes and fiercest proponents are humans. Ironforge dwarves possess the toughness needed to withstand the onslaught of the paladins’ many enemies. High elves rarely become paladins, though this has changed somewhat, as their blood elf brothers and sisters expand the Blood Knight order. The Blood Knights are commonly mistaken as the enemy of the Knights of the Silver Hand by outsiders unfamiliar with the ways of the Light, but this is false presumption. Paladins are the embodiment of good and selfless dedication to the protection of their peoples. They help the innocent and punish the wicked. As such, all paladins are of good alignment.
The first statement in bold should no longer be valid, since B-elf paladin's and undead seem to get along just fine. (popping AoE when tanking stuff, my spells never hit the undead in the party/raid.)
Tauren paladin is
the most stupid thing i've ever heard.
(Based on personal opinion and my take on the WoW-lore.)
If anything, Forsaken should have been allowed the line of "Paladinism" or for that matter, if Tauren can be, then why cant troll's? It makes just as much sense as a troll druid. Orc's? No they wont be able to be paladin's. Goblin/Worgen i dont know about, but i't wouldn't surprise me if they all could be paladin's. (Ye cuz we all know goblin's love the light, at least the light coming of the gold in the treasure chest.)
Imho, Blizz made a poopoo, and guess what? I doubt they will fix it. They rarely do.
"Hell no, we wont go, tauren pally is a no!"
/Endless chanting in the back of my head.
If there is a Tauren paladin in the group or raid, i'll leave. I'll probably claim my cat ate some C-4 and exploded under my bed, or something else that doesnt make sense.
Post by
24974
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Post by
Monday
If anything, Forsaken should have been allowed the line of "Paladinism" or for that matter, if Tauren can be, then why cant troll's? It makes just as much sense as a troll druid.
You sir, are an idiot.
Troll druids are perfectly viable in lore, you've seen them in Gun'drak and Zul'Aman etc.
If there is a Tauren paladin in the group or raid, i'll leave. I'll probably claim my cat ate some C-4 and exploded under my bed, or something else that doesnt make sense.
Good. I don't want you in my group.
Forsaken should have been allowed the line of "Paladinism"
We've talked about this. I won't argue with you. Suffice to say, I disagree wholeheartedly.
Post by
44284
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Post by
Monday
"Rouge" by the way should be an instant death sentence.
By boiling acid.
I can't grind their bones to dust one at a time?
/sad
Post by
469682
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Post by
Monday
I don't know how much base stats at the highest levels will differ between the two races
They will be exactly the same, except for stamina.. Only dwarves and Tauren will have 1 more point of stamina than the rest of the races.
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