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Why do I defend Thrall so much? this is why
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Post by
Skreeran
Honestly, I doubt that the Alliance would even accept a Forsaken surrender. For the most part, they see the Forsaken as less than human: an undead monster that needs to be destroyed.
Not that I'm saying that those Forsaken who wish for human genocide are in the right, of course. I'm just saying that I really sympathize with people like Trevor and Leonid (and Skreel).
Anyway, I didn't mean for this to sprout into a huge discussion. What I was saying is that, even though I like Sylvanas, the Alliance does have right to mete on justice to her.
Someone like Skreel (who is essentially my model for what an innocent Forsaken would be), Trevor, or Leonid, however, should not be killed, but probably would.
And I don't mean "I was just going for the enemy, he was undead, so I took the shot." I'm talking more "Those undead buggers are getting away. run 'em down, boys!"
But I suppose that's just my own perception.
Post by
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Regardless of my previous statement, I never claimed I actully liked Varian. Rank pointed out something though, and as its gone on here. Adams, you've stated your reason for wanting to see Sylvanas killed and the forsaken wiped out, that despite her past, and all the crap she endured, that she doesn't have cause to act the way she does after being made into what she is.
In that, if that justifes you saying Sylvanas should be killed... doesn't that equally justify me saying the same thing about Varian? That despite all the crap he endured, he's still a racist prick of a leader towards orcs and he should be killed off?
It works both ways, no matter how much you gonna try to pick at it, so your justice on Sylvanas works if my one does against Varian, just saying.
Post by
Adamsm
Regardless of my previous statement, I never claimed I actully liked Varian. Rank pointed out something though, and as its gone on here. Adams, you've stated your reason for wanting to see Sylvanas killed and the forsaken wiped out, that despite her past, and all the crap she endured, that she doesn't have cause to act the way she does after being made into what she is.
In that, if that justifes you saying Sylvanas should be killed... doesn't that equally justify me saying the same thing about Varian? That despite all the crap he endured, he's still a racist prick of a leader towards orcs and he should be killed off?
It works both ways, no matter how much you gonna try to pick at it, so your justice on Sylvanas works if my one does against Varian, just saying.
Name one member of the New Horde, a completely innocent person that Varian has hurt.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Name one member of the New Horde, a completely innocent person that Varian has hurt.
Sorry, I won't bite. Point rests that there is the same reason for me to say Varian should be killed, just as you have to say Sylvanas should be.
And if your so inclined, pick at it, since thats what I expected.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, in that vein of thinking, you can say anyone should die. Sorry Tauren, but if your not going to put any effort into it, I'm just ignoring the attempted baiting.
Post by
Monday
Name one member of the New Horde, a completely innocent person that Varian has hurt.
Sorry, I won't bite. Point rests that there is the same reason for me to say Varian should be killed, just as you have to say Sylvanas should be.
And if your so inclined, pick at it, since thats what I expected.
Wait, since when does Varian=Sylvanas? Two totally different personalities/factions/ideals.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Well, in that vein of thinking, you can say anyone should die. Sorry Tauren, but if your not going to put any effort into it, I'm just ignoring the attempted baiting.
Sorry Adams, but you can't one minute say something like Sylvanas should be killed off because of what she was made into and the things it caused because of it, and then not say the same thing about Varian, and his mass genocidal desire against the horde. It so completely imbalanced a point it loses any justification.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm sorry, did Varian create a weapon designed to killing the living and the dead and test it on any subjects he could find? Is he responsible for the death of both Alliance and Horde due to said weapon? Did he kill his best friend?
Seriously, well Varian says stupid @#$%, I'll agree there, he hasn't been running around mass slaughtering people wholesale, that's all Sylvanas right there.
Go ahead, called him a racist, a warmonger what have you... but remember, he didn't kill his own people with a psycho weapon. They aren't even close to the same category, and if your reduced to Varian shots again... yeah, I think the thread is on it's last legs.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Oh I'm not arguing that Sylvanas is messed up in the head and acts without reason, except cold blooded revenge. But thats hardly the point now is it, since it comes down to you just not liking her, the same as me not liking Varian. And so, it still sits. You want her to die for (details) I want Varian to be offed for (details).
This is also why I said I knew you would pick at details
Post by
Monday
Oh I'm not arguing that Sylvanas is messed up in the head and acts without reason, except cold blooded revenge. But thats hardly the point now is it, since it comes down to you just not liking her, the same as me not liking Varian. And so, it still sits. You want her to die for (details) I want Varian to be offed for (details).
This is also why I said I knew you would pick at details
Details are what matter though. Hard Facts are what distinguish somebody's fact based opinion from opinionated garbage.
Post by
Adamsm
Just like you would pick at anyone who says anything that in your eyes is 'bad' about Thrall, like jumping into a humour thread and attempting to transform it into a serious discussion. I can see hating a character for a certain reason... but you don't really have one for Varian or Garrosh; the most you do is point at them and go "I don't like them, and my opinions about them both are a fact and the rest of you can all just GTFO."
Post by
taurenmoo812
Just like you would pick at anyone who says anything that in your eyes is 'bad' about Thrall, like jumping into a humour thread and attempting to transform it into a serious discussion. I can see hating a character for a certain reason... but you don't really have one for Varian or Garrosh; the most you do is point at them and go "I don't like them, and my opinions about them both are a fact and the rest of you can all just GTFO."
And yours about Sylvanas and the forsaken is justifiable and within reason I suppose, well nobodies elses is. Talk about trying to wipe your hands clean. And now saying I don't have reason to hate either Varian or Garrosh despite saying on multiple threads just why it is? Thats really all you got?
I hear the air going out of a balloon.
Post by
Monday
Just like you would pick at anyone who says anything that in your eyes is 'bad' about Thrall, like jumping into a humour thread and attempting to transform it into a serious discussion. I can see hating a character for a certain reason... but you don't really have one for Varian or Garrosh; the most you do is point at them and go "I don't like them, and my opinions about them both are a fact and the rest of you can all just GTFO."
And yours about Sylvanas and the forsaken is justifiable and within reason I suppose, well nobodies elses is. Talk about trying to wipe your hands clean. And now saying I don't have reason to hate either Varian or Garrosh despite saying on multiple threads just why it is? Thats really all you got?
I hear the air going out of a balloon.
Adams never used his opinions as facts though.
And Sylvanas should be exterminated imo... Varian treats his enemies honorably (killing them in battle with a sword) instead of torturing and depriving helpless prisoners who are then infected and killed.
Varian=a war leader who fights
Sylvanas=Convicted of crimes against
humanity
living sentient races.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Varian= a bigoted war leader who fights and doesn't listen to reason.
Sylvanas= Faught back against those that saw her kind as monsters, and used them as further pursuit for her war against them.
Had to change that. See one can alter the facts of any case from both ends, since this always comes with a two sided coin.
Post by
Adamsm
And yours about Sylvanas and the forsaken is justifiable and within reason I suppose, well nobodies elses isSo Sylvanas didn't make the Blight, and her group didn't kill Alliance and Horde soldiers? Guess someone should tell Blizzard they screwed up.
When I'm talking about your opinions, I'm talking about the fact that you are ranting and raving, going on and on about Garrosh turning into a Fel Orc and leading the Horde down a Dark Path.... but you have no proof, I mean, even with the threads offered to you by Skree, you still deny it, more or less standing on the roof stops screeching at the top of your lungs that the Horde is done, the Horde is gone, that Blizzard has turned it's back on you and the loyal Horde fan base.... who are split 50/50 between those who want peace and those who would rather have war.
As for your Varian opinions... you've, personally, have never shown a single piece of evidence about anything to do with him, merely took what Skree and Rank showed and acted like that proves that Varian is going to wipe out every man, woman and child of the Orcs... when he hasn't done a single thing in Game to prove that point.
If anyone is 'hear the air going out of a balloon', its your little opinion after the 15th thread you made about this topic.
Varian= a bigoted war leader who fights and doesn't listen to reason.
Sylvanas= Faught back against those that saw her kind as monsters, and used them as further pursuit for her war against them.
Had to change that. See one can alter the facts of any case from both ends, since this always comes with a two sided coin.
/rolls eyes. And when you do stuff like that, you further my point.
Post by
Monday
Varian= a bigoted war leader who fights and doesn't listen to reason.
Sylvanas= Faught back against those that saw her kind as monsters, and used them as further pursuit for her war against them.
Had to change that. See one can alter the facts of any case from both ends, since this always comes with a two sided coin.
She fought back against those who considered her a monster sure... with some of the most vile and disgusting means that could be invented.
And Sylvanas doesn't really listen to reason either... I mean she has a dreadlord as security ...
Post by
Skreeran
And Sylvanas doesn't really listen to reason either... I mean she has a dreadlord as security ...That being said, I think she has slightly better reasons for not listening to reason than Varian... :P
But other than that, I've not taking sides in this little tiff.
Post by
Monday
And Sylvanas doesn't really listen to reason either... I mean she has a dreadlord as security ...That being said, I think she has slightly better reasons for not listening to reason than Varian... :P
But other than that, I've not taking sides in this little tiff.
Why? He saw his kingdom burned, was caught and forced to fight as a gladiator... he has every right.
I'm not supporting Varian in everything he does... but he does have reasons. Which Garrosh does not.
Post by
Adamsm
And Sylvanas doesn't really listen to reason either... I mean she has a dreadlord as security ...That being said, I think she has slightly better reasons for not listening to reason than Varian... :P
But other than that, I've not taking sides in this little tiff.
I never said she wasn't insane, but I think the Draenei method for dealing with the Fel Orcs should be used for her; put her out of her misery.
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