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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Swipe on single target ?
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Post by
hawke
Okay, here's the deal :
I consider myself a good tank. Rarely loose (if ever) aggro on mob I'm tanking, good gear, aware of what's hapenning around, always looking at healer Mana, etc, etc.
Now, I was tanking Saurfang (our first attempt) the other day and swiped at the moment one of the blood beast spawned. I was told I was an idiot to use Swipe on single target. Am I an idiot ? My usual rotation is as follow (I have maul macroed to be used on Lacerate , Mangle and Swipe):
FFF - Mangle - Lacerate - Lacerate - Lacerate - Mangle - Lacerate and when I have 5 stack of lacerate running , swipe (macroed with maul) until mangle is off CD, use FFF as much as I can, lacerate to refresh stack.
Am I really doing something wrong by using Swipe on single target ? They said I should only be using Lacerate, Mangle and FFF on single target pull to generate aggro. Although I can see their points, I'm not sure how it's bad to use Swipe on single target .. maybe someone can teach me ?
Post by
hashmel
Swipe is a greater dps/threat ability than the dd of lacerate for a filler.
On Saurfang however where attacking secondary targets is a strict don't it's a little less ideal but so long as you can swipe without hitting the blood beasts it's the best use of those 3 seconds both mangle and fff are on cd and lacerate isn't in need of refreshing.
Post by
oberondreaming
I don't feral tank, but I think I read that
Mangle
is what you're supposed to be spamming on single targets when you don't have anything more important to do.
It's 15 rage (with
Ferocity
), just like
Swipe
. but it's "115% of normal damage plus 299", while Swipe is only a flat 108.
Swipe gets 30% from
Feral Instinct
while Mangle gets 20% from
Savage Fury
, but I don't think that's enough for Swipe to overtake Mangle, even with Swipe's 50% bonus threat.
Post by
Saphiria
I use swipe on single target as well. When all 5 Lacerates are up, i use swipe instead of lacerate while continuing mangle and maul. You just need to be more careful when the blood beasts arrive.
Post by
hashmel
He's using mangle already, it's a 6 second cooldown as is fff which leaves 2 free gcds between each mangle which are to be used for lacerate or swipe as needed.
The issue is that swipe should be used during those 2 gcds if lacerate doesn't need refreshing but due to the mechanics of saurfang it's not always safe to do so.
They tested their luck and caught a tough break when a blood beast spawned then caught some %^&* from others whom potentially don't know how bears work.
Post by
Lightrain
Saurfang is a dangerous fight for all ferals with maul glyphed and macro'd to their normal attacks(just one of the reasons I don't macro my attacks together).
You just have to be careful. Because people are switching to the blood beasts, you should just use single target within a few seconds of them spawning.
I'm not sure if DBM shows when they spawn on the timers or not as I haven't done the fight myself, but just try to be overly aware of the timers on fights like this.
As for the idiots, don't worry about it. Everyone makes mistakes. Healers and tanks just get the most crap for it.
I've had people try to blame wipes on me many times. I got kicked out of a VoA because I took 6 cleave strikes and no heals. Yep. My fault. My 4.7 GS is totally to blame there...... Bears don't need heals.
That's not even how idiotic things are now. I put relentless neck and cloak on to up my GS so I could get into ICC 10. They didn't look at my gear, didn't care, just accepted my 4988 GS as "acceptable", and was even invited to a guild for being a great tank......
I've out DPS'd Destro locks with 5.3k GS on my feral with a 4.7k GS and at least 4 pieces gemmed and enchanted for tanking while using my pvp spec. I can guarantee you that if I went to an ICC to dps, and had a fight that was a lot of movement and had position issues that makes feral less than optimal dps, I'ld probably get booted for doing 4.2k dps instead of over 5k just because of my GS.
Just ignore it and move on.
Post by
521380
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
I don't feral tank, but I think I read that
Mangle
is what you're supposed to be spamming on single targets when you don't have anything more important to do.
It's 15 rage (with
Ferocity
), just like
Swipe
. but it's "115% of normal damage plus 299", while Swipe is only a flat 108.
Swipe gets 30% from
Feral Instinct
while Mangle gets 20% from
Savage Fury
, but I don't think that's enough for Swipe to overtake Mangle, even with Swipe's 50% bonus threat.
You can't spam
mangle
. It has a fairly long CD.
To op, you're not and idiot for using swipe on a single target, you just used it in the wrong context. If you pick up adds when you're not supposed to, it's wrong. Simple as that really.
My rotation is similar - FFF, mangle, laceratex3 (or whatever mangle CD is), mangle, lacerate to 5 stacks then swipe unless maul is up, or if lacerate timer is < 50% then lacerate.
fix'd
Post by
521380
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Post by
422325
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129046
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Post by
Punkenjoy
Mangle is a 6 sec CD with 1.5 sec global CD
Mangle is the Highest TPS on a global CD
FFF is second and have a 6 sec CD with a 1 Global CD
Both of these are the key of the bear rotation.
Each one have a 6 sec cooldown.
6 sec is 4 global CD so our rotation is based on Mangle FFF filler filler, or FFF Mangle Filler Filler
Filler are Lacerate until 5 stack
Mangle --> FFF --> Lacerate x1 --> Lacerate x2 --> Mangle --> FFF --> Lacerate x3--> Lacerate x4--> Mangle --> FFF --> Lacerate x5--> Swipe
then swipe give more threat and DPS
you should be able in ideal situation to do 3 swipe between each of your lacerate refresh
Mangle --> FFF --> Swipe -- Swipe --> Mangle --> FFF --> Swipe -- Lacerate Refresh -->
with this rotation, i outhreat our pally MT who is at the same lvl of gear. I have to stop the rotation if i dont want to pull aggro.
On saurfang, just look at the beast cooldown in DBM and stop swiping.
Also on taunting boss, i always swich glyph of maul and glyph of growling. Anyway you are only tanking 1 target.
Also, Remember Saurfang is not a Effective health fight, its an avoidance fight
Get the maximum avoidance you can (without gimping yourself too much)
Each time he miss, Saurfang generate no blood power.
Each time he miss,
Mark of the Fallen
Champion dont take damage.
it help alot !
Post by
MegaVolt
Yes, using Swipe on a single target is good since it produces more threat than the initial damage part of Lacerate. If you already have a 5stack of Lacerate on the target, even if it is only a single one, you can Swipe.
Yes, your guildmates still were right. You don't Swipe when Saurfang is about to cast Blood Beasts. Just replace it by Lacerate, the threat loss is very small and certainly not worth risking a wipe because beasts attack you.
Post by
oberondreaming
You can't spam
mangle
. It has a fairly long CD.
Oh... yeah.
Duh.
(Maybe I was thinking of what you spam as a kitty when you can't get behind something for some reason. Kitty mangle doesn't have a cooldown.)
Post by
462600
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Post by
144872
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Post by
hawke
Thanks for the heads up guys. I did put un-macroed ability (ie: not macroed with Maul) in my bar and watched the timer carefull in DBM, went well, we downed him on our second attempt :)! I wasen't sure if Swipe was a bigger threat boost than Lacerate.
You know, all those kids that played a druid at some point 10 patch ago and still think they're up to date on what to do... :) (one of them even said that Glyph of Indomitabilty was worst than Essence of Gossamer... :O)
Post by
Lightrain
(one of them even said that Glyph of Indomitabilty was worst than Essence of Gossamer... :O)
Depends on the fight.... Non melee fights, it is.
Post by
hawke
He was talking overall, since we weren't specifying any fight, and I still prefer my Black Hearth to Gossamer :P.
If I remember well, his general statement was based around : "Druid dosen't need armor, $%^& Glyph"
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