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Why Bring a Warrior Tank, when you can have: DK, Pala ?
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422537
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78077
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Post by
hemek
Yeah thanks for disecting his post and disagreeing with everything to make yourself seem superiour and more intelligent, for all you know he could have a girlfriend and be outside "getting fresh" a lot.
That's got nothing to do with anything, we all play this game we all want to be competetive and right now death knights are clearly superior.
Think you'd be &*!@ed off if your favorite class which you've spent a lot of time on is deemed the worst at its role.
Totally agree - Warriors need a huge buff in tanking and PVP
We have to roll Prot spec just to be able to survive in PVP - this not to mention that our damage is $%^&!
I am #$%^ed off that I am playing my warrior and their is no point in me doing PVP because warriors are so #$%^ they get wasted by everything
We definitly need to have our @#$% AoE tanking fixed because it just stupid how every other class can AoE tank and we can't as well
We haven't been giving anything good - Shockwave is pretty average - it should stay around like a concecrate does for a pally or a D&D for a DK or how a bear swipes everyone.
Our survival is @#$% we need to have more stamina!
Post by
hemek
we need more damage reduction, more aoe threat and more stam - it just feels like I am wearing 60 gear doing an 80s job
Post by
hashmel
Aoe tanking is close enough amongst tanks. DKs naturally in the lead....
YOU have Shockwave which "hits everything like bear Swipe"
and
stuns everything.
YOU have Thunderclap that "hits everything like bear Swipe"
and
reduces their physical damage output.
YOU have Cleave which hits up to 3 enemies.
YOU have Damage Shield.
Pallies have Consecrate. hmm guess that's it huh.
Druids have Swipe.
Druids have Maul that hits up to 2 enemies.
Druids have Berserk that temporarily allows Mangle to hit up to 3 enemies.
Death Knights...I'd rather not list em all especially among all the various tank specs out there 5/5/5 +56
-How would copying and pasting the paladin class onto the warrior fix warriors?
-Consectration isn't the holy grail of aoes, if the benefit is setting it in 1 place and being in another is the issue then that's a mediocre argument imo.
-It's such a short-lived duration and the threat gen it deals isn't instant, Blizz gives you a warrior Concecration and next your complaining because mobs ran right through it before a sufficient amount of ticks, next you want righteous fury, then spell power, then mana and heals, then your class is phased out leaving only 3 tanking classes.
-You get a pbaoe that deals instant threat
and
reduces incoming physical damage.
-You get a frontal cone that deals instant threat
and
stuns. (if your letting the entire pull hit you from behind then the tank's aoes are the least of the raid's worries)
-You get a spamable ability that hits as much as a glyphed Maul and can glyph it to hit as much as a Berserked Mangle.
umm how is a 6 sec tc cooldown long but consecration's 8-10 second cd is just lovely?
i'm not a hater to DKs per say but if you are going to complain about someone make it the hero class that's intentionally set above the bar.
It's all about the survivability, warriors lack S-U-R-V-I-V-A-B-L-I-T-Y in comparison to the other tanks and it's sadly appearent.
edit: had to take off before finishing this post earlier
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Post by
hashmel
yeah everyone was complaining about consecration specifically though so thought i'd use their narrow perception for a little compaison
Post by
Timmeh
I should preface this by saying I have 3 tanks at 80 - only missing a DK to complete the set.
Out of the 3 I'm familiar with, paladins have the best straight down AoE threat, but it is notictably limited by how much control you have of the fight. Essentially, paladins excel when they can stick their consecrate down and have stuff run onto it or pull things towards it; if there are a great number of enemies coming in from a few directions, it can be tougher to control than those who've never played one may imagine, it's far from "consecrate lolwin", it requires movement and intelligent use and cooldown management of hammer of the righteous/righteous shield. Paladin burst AoE is also quite poor for pulls of 4+ targets (assuming the HotR glyph is in use).
Druid AoE tanking is a lot easier than many would imply. Essentially, you move near things and keep hitting swipe and tabbing through targets to maul. Okay, so the AoE requires you to use every GCD to keep using it, but it generates threat and has the advantage of having no cooldown, so no matter how many enemies you have coming at you, you always have it available to grab them too. The actual threat generated by swipe could probably do with a very small boost, but it's not too shabby. Burst threat is average, fine I'd say.
Warrior AoE tanking has by far the best burst. One on-swing, one short cooldown, one medium cooldown ability give a fair amount of utility. If anything, I suppose due to the nature of thunderclap giving a large chunk of threat all at once compared to say consecrate's requirement for the mobs to stay in it, or swipe's devouring of pretty much every GCD you have, it's only right that it's not quite so threaty - it is, possibly a little too low at the moment, it could probably just do with scaling a little better with AP. Warriors are not, however fundamentally flawed, not by a very long shot, definitely not to the degree that a lot of the people in this thread seem to believe.
In terms of PvP, both fury and arms appear bursty enough, they could both do with a little more survivability without a shield equipped, but not in a way that boosts shield-using survivability for when warriors need to turtle. Maybe nail something along the lines of a 3% per point chance to reflect a spell when a 2-her is equipped onto deflection. The ability to equip a shield is already pretty powerful against melee opponents.
All in all, we're doing fine, some minor tweaks could no doubt be beneficial, but definitely no need for some sort of major overhaul.
Post by
hashmel
Outstanding post Timmeh. I myself am too enthralled with the feral tank to invest heavilly into the other tanks and you've most likely snuffed out the "QQ consecrate" posts I've been trying to move this away from and onto the actual lifespan of tanks with a thorough and well articulated post.
Post by
78077
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Post by
Vedli
You know what I think would help warrior AOE threat?
Very simple,
Whirlwind
in Defensive Stance. With maybe some form of talent to improve it's threat generation when used in Defensive Stance, hit all targets not just four and lower the cooldown.
Post by
Porcell
You know what I think would help warrior AOE threat?
Very simple,
Whirlwind
in Defensive Stance. With maybe some form of talent to improve it's threat generation when used in Defensive Stance, hit all targets not just four and lower the cooldown.
Which would be... thunderclap.
Post by
124864
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Post by
Timmeh
Well Tubey, in truth I've not really had much trouble keeping threat off of (skilled) DPSers AoEing, as long as I get to lay down my thunderclap and shockwave before they go nuts. What I do have problems holding threat against are paladin or DK tanks, generally I can get the 3 targets hit by my cleave to stick to me, but that's about it, the tick AoEs can out-threat me on everything else. The other prot warrior in my guild experiences about the same. I can live with that, keeping ahead of the DPS is the only real goal in my eyes, paladin and DK tanks win on AoE, I win on single target threat races against them more than I don't. Vigilance combined with an MM hunter is rather helpful here.
And it's not always so easy for prot paladins to, as you say "act like a magnet" on certain fights. Sure, if things run straight at you it's easy as pie to have them stick to you, but that's definitely not always the case For example, on Razorscale when we were still learning the encounter, one of our tanks died, leaving myself and a very skilled prot paladin picking up everything. I had a much easier time of it than he did, because I could charge/intervene around the raid and cleave for some initial threat then TC and shockwave when they were available while he had to lay down his consecrate, then stay on it and try to tempt enemies to come sit on it with him, and despite what people may think, that's not always easy, most of the ranged abilities have a medium to long cooldown, and they certainly cannot move around like a warrior can (tying back to my original post).
I dunno, as I said, warriors could probably do with a small buff, but we're not anything like as awful as people imply now, we may have to work harder, but I personally like that, it at least forces me to be at the top of my game, if it was too easy I just wouldn't have any fun.
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337553
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