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Why Bring a Warrior Tank, when you can have: DK, Pala ?
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Post by
422537
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Post by
hashmel
Feral tank here. I couldn't help but notice everyone talking about warriors being worse than paladins and DKs...so where do the bears stand?
Now onto the topic at hand.
The big lack warriors have seems to lie in their survivability.
Not counting bubble or inter-character buffs as those can be slapped on others making it a non issue
Warrior survivability
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGVcZVhtMx0didIdsGo:LTdmzc
-only 6% stamina bonus
-10% armor bonus
-10% physical/magic damage reduction in defensive stance
-----6% magic damage reduction with improved defensive stance
-----40% physical/magic damage with with glyphed shield wall
-3-4 oh sh*t buttons (last stand, shield wall, spell reflection, enraged regeneration)
Paladin survivability
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZE0tAMugGsIufdxb:opcczm
-14% stamina bonus
-10% armor bonus
-6% physical, 12% magic damage reduction
-----3% physical/magic damage reduction with glyphed divine plea
-----30% physical/magic damage reduction with below 35% health
-----50% physical/magic damage reduction with divine protection
-4 oh sh*t buttons (holy shield, lay on hands, glyph of divine plea, divine protection)
Druid survivability
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGGscrzceRcczVkbAczb:0znmzM
-45%stamina bonus
-10% armor bonus considering bear form armor bonus puts us on par with plate
-12% physical/magic damage reduction
-----20% phisical/magic damage reduction with barkskin
-3 oh sh*t buttons (barkskin, survival instincts, frenzied regeneration)
Death Knight survivability
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0xZhgxthMIkfzisst0x:pTRm0M
-10% health bonus, 2% stamina bonus from rune of the stoneskin gargoyle
-84% armor bonus
-5% physical/magic damage reduction in frost presence
-----2% physical/magic damage reduction with improved frost presence
-----5% physical/magic damage reduction with blade barrier
-----30% physical/magic damage reduction with icebound fortitude
-----5% armor as physical/magic damage reduction with unbreakable armor
-----75% magic damage reduction with anti-magic shell
-5 oh sh*t buttons (unbreakable armor, army of the dead, anti-magic shell, icebound fortitude, death pact)
Offensively they're balanced "enough" as far as i'm concerned. We're meant to take the hits not dish them out and the issue of threat is laughable seeing as how easily all 4 can maintain threat over dps. And don't even try complaining about tanking damage output with a bear!
Post by
422537
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Post by
186549
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Post by
hashmel
About the 1st comment...
I stated "3-4 oh sh*t buttons" for warriors since spell reflection is situational if at all helpful. Enraged regeneration is the same as frenzied regeneration only with a specific requirement to use so if yours isn't an oh sh*t button than neither is a druid's. Point still stands that warriors got shafted on survivability which seems to be their main problem when holding their own with other tanks and that's just not right, cmon only 6% stamina bonus wth blizz!
I think you missed the nerfs to bear armor huh. yes we used to be able to get at least to 74% damage mitigation, 75% easy in kara with tome of the mountain king. <3 but all that has changed, we don't get the armor multiplier to rings, trinkets, cloaks, necks, or weapons anymore, our armor bonus from bear form is down 30%, and they've removed bonus armor gear. (green armor value) The most armor a druid can get nowadays is around 32000 using inferior gear simply for max armor which is only about 68% damage mitigation. generally using BiS gear we'd be around 24000 or 61%
As for the 2nd comment...
I don't know the exact number army of the dead works to reduce damage.
The tooltip says "equal to dodge+parry chance" but the spell description shows some -50 value.
Either way you should have somewhere between 20-45% (dodge+parry chance) raid buffed depending on gear while casting aotd.
So yeah I'd call 20-45% damage reduction for 6 seconds and pulling some incoming damage off you during that time without having it aggro onto another raid member an oh sh*t button.
And while you become a "protective barnacle" during your "Oh Sh*t" moment aotd still keeps your damage output respectable.
Given you don't want to use aotd on all bosses for instance dragons with a tail swipe, those with a cone aoe, etc.
And as for the DK armor bonus it's 84% I'm a druid I've been calculating armor multipliers before your class existed. (came out a bit harsher than intended i suppose)
1*1.15*1.6=1.84 (base armor)(toughness multiplier)(frost presence multiplier)
Post by
186549
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Post by
hashmel
Point taken..my original statement still remains.
"Warriors got the shaft on tank survivability and blizz needs to mend that mistake."
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186549
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341510
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422537
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306782
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422537
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Post by
hashmel
Considering how all the tanks can grab aggro and hold it over dps just by hopping on one foot threat differences amongst tank classes isn't an issue, as far as aoes all tank classes can do that sufficiently as well, however as far as survivability I'm sorry to say warriors have been overlooked no question.
To the hunter envious post above, DKs don't get 12% bonus to stamina they get
-6% stamina bonus
IF
specced into Veteran of the Third War 3/3 (5th tier blood)
-10% health bonus (yeah there's a difference) from Frost Presence
-2% stamina bonus
IF
using Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (2 hand weapons)
And yes, "The player indeed makes the class...to an extent." But a gimped survivability tank is still just that, gimped.
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Post by
Meggie
Q u o t e:
Ghostcrawler: Death knights are the only current Hero class, which means they are supposed to be the best class in the game.
The problem with deathknights is the majority being rerolled guildless huntards and PvP
rouges
from the sub 1500 segment. Despite all their nice abilities I'm amazed with any deathknight able to tank a heroic.
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422537
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