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Why is GHeal bad for Discicpline?
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Post by
PrimeSonic
An honest question I never got a real answer to. In regards to right now and the possible changes coming in 3.1, just why am I supposed to avoid this like the plague?
I've tried living without it and for the most part, with a good enough tank, Penance and FHeal is fine; but there were parts where I figured a good GHeal would have been nice too, either on the tank or someone else.
So, to everyone who's ever said to unbind GHeal (that means you Seneca), give me the real reasons why it needs to go.
Post by
339648
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Post by
semperfi
I guess it is because of improved flash heal.
Post by
Ethix
It's not.
It's still more healing per second than flash heal.
Post by
PrimeSonic
Wow. Not what I was expecting.
As far as Improved Flash Heal: have you actually thought about it?
Consider this:
->Cost reduction to make up for mana regen nerf + Rapture 'change'
---> So then shouldn't I be using a more efficient spell in the first place?
-'10% extra crit chance on targets bellow 50%
---> When in your right mind are you going to Flash Heal someone who obviously needs a Shield + Penance? The bonus crit chance will hardly ever see any use.
~~~
So unless Seneca gets in here, I am still arriving to the same conclusions.
If the case is actually this, then
this
mat be my 3.1 healing spec. That is assuming they don't change Grace again cause it's pretty bad as it stands.
Post by
240805
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Post by
328067
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Post by
PrimeSonic
In response to Seneca:
At last, an worthwhile answer. Sometimes a jerk, but most times on the money.
By this point, I figure comparing Penance to Greater Heal is like an apples/oranges deal. Sure, I'll take Penance over GHeal anytime. Perhaps those 2 seconds from the glyph will be enough.
Perhaps what I'm getting it is that many of the talents in the Discipline tree that play off Flash Heal also play off Greater Heal. Now, if the cost reduction from Improved Flash Heal will really break the difference, then I can see it happening, but it's second effect is more of a joke as I see it.
So far, I've been able to get by without it, provided a minimally competent party. Sadly, it hurts to think that I'll have to spend 3 talents and a mayor glyph spot just to keep Flash Heal viable in spam-needy situations.
And lets not forget that come 3.1, mana returns on spell casts are gone, which makes that point moot. It'll force us to consider how to best conserve mana and I'm not sure if FHeal spam will cut it.
TL:DR version
3.1 is coming.
Rapture nerf.
Provided talents and glyph, will GHeal still heal more per point of mana than FHeal?
Five points not in
Divine Fury
are still a waste for Discipline anywhere else they could go.
~~~`
~~~`
~~~`
Response to Nitefoxxy
This is how I've always considered the priest and why I never left any healing spell behind.
Post by
240805
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Post by
PrimeSonic
DA procs, currently, do not work on overhealed crits. So, if your target has 15k/20k health, and you crit heal him for 14k with a Greater Heal, he will still only receive a DA of 1500 (5k times 30%).
This is an important detail to consider. Since it's been a while, I can't remember if my DA procs off GHeal lasted any longer than the ones off FHeal, but if what counts if effective healing then there hardly would be a difference.
Still, even without a bunch of talents backing it up, we still have Borrowed Time and Inner Focus that can help bring out a big fast heal in an emergency. Or if you're really desperate, Power Infusion, but I never used it on myself for healing so...yeah.
~~
Edit in response to the edited post. :P
A do agree, though I still see no reason not to use an occasion GHeal given what I mentioned above. I wouldn't be spamming Prayer of Healing, but sometimes it's needed, same goes for Holy Nova, etc.
And for 5 talents that we have to spend to get to Inspiration, they might as well be spent on something that procs DA.
Post by
240805
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Post by
328067
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Post by
PrimeSonic
Well, I think now we all understand why to take Flash Heal over Greater Heal in terms of frequency of use.
But at the same time I believe it still has it's occasional use, usually backed up by Inner Focus.
I guess it's kinda like how a Holy Priest has Greater Heal/Circle of Healing as main spells but they'll still use the occasional Flash Heal.
I figure in the same way a Discipline Priest will use the occasional Greater Healer.
Post by
328067
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Post by
240805
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Post by
razzem
I don't know why you are comparing Flash Heal with Greater Heal.
You should be comparing Penance with G.Heal. In 3.1, a new glyph will result in reducing Penances CD to a mere 6 seconds. If between PW:S, Renew, PoM, and Penance you can't keep your Tank up w/o a G.Heal, something is wrong.
Penance is so much better hps and hpm than G.Heal it's not even funny, with or w/o talents.
Post by
240805
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Post by
PrimeSonic
I don't know why you are comparing Flash Heal with Greater Heal.
You should be comparing Penance with G.Heal. In 3.1, a new glyph will result in reducing Penances CD to a mere 6 seconds. If between PW:S, Renew, PoM, and Penance you can't keep your Tank up w/o a G.Heal, something is wrong.
Penance is so much better hps and hpm than G.Heal it's not even funny, with or w/o talents.
Like I said, I've been doing fine without it these last couple weeks. And of course Penance beats GHeal into the ground. I was simply looking for the solid reasons to abandon it.
No reason to unbind it completely and it still does a nice combo with Inner Focus if Penance is on cooldown but obviously to be used with careful moderation.
Heck, even before I wasn't spending mana on GHeal as I found ways to put it to use only when Inner Focus was up, so mana wasn't a problem given my form.
Post by
328067
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Post by
razzem
Hehe,
If you can find ways of using it without running yourself OOM and keeping your overheal to a minimum, I guess it doesn't matter.
Seriously though, if Penance is on the CD, Flash heal is/should be plenty to hold you over till the next Penance. I'd say it is a way better choice come 3.1 since glyph + talent reduces F.Heal by -25% mana cost (that's
13.5% base mana for a flash heal
... yowzer!). Flash heal is way better as a filler spell when 3.1 rolls around.
and also no one once said anything about using GH over penance. not once......
The point is, the OP/supporters was/were trying to compare F.heal vs G.heal. And those really aren't the ones to be compared. Hence my answer.
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