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Post by
MyTie
Again, I ask of you to name-drop at least 10 recent works of fiction (Movies, games, or books) with terrorists or extremist villains that are religious-driven zealots but NOT muslims. (fake religions don't really count, ya know, cuz if we think about it Final Fantasy X has the yu-yevon church which is completely fake)
Christianity is constantly lampooned in movies, so much so that it is a common backdrop unnecessarily for otherwise innocuous movies. For example, read
this critic's appraisal
of "Easy-A". When I turn on the radio, happen to watch TV, or go to the movies, I tend to expect that Christians are going to be portrayed as overly zealous, vengeful, naive, &*!@#$%s.
Here
is another article I read recently that touched on "Angels and Demons" and the way it smeared the Catholic Church. Other movies that come to the top of my head are stuff like "Priest", "Carrie", and others.
Even in video games, such as Dante's Inferno (a God of War rip off for XBox), Christians are portrayed as rapist murdering thieving mass genocidal hypocrites.
Even kid's movies, such as Pocahontas and The Hunchback of Notre Dame, portray Christians as zealous hateful bigoted murderers.
I mean, this is just stuff I've read, or looked over recently, or stuff that comes to the top of my head. Do I really need to list 10 of them for you? The anti-Christian sentiment coming out of hollywood has given me years of stuff... I could come up with 100s of them, but I've got other things to do.
I don't know how things are for you in Venezula, but here in the USA, Christianity is a punching bag, and Muslims "aren't all like that".
Post by
baradiel
It uses your ZAM email to log in. You do not need to make a new one.
HOWEVER, you can link your summoner to the account, and you absolutely should.
I don't know why didn't tell you this at first but when i tried to log in with the ZAM email and password, it didn't let me log in.
Post by
Rankkor
Christianity is constantly lampooned in movies
Ridiculed is one thing, depicted as barbaric homicidal terrorists is another.
Other movies that come to the top of my head are stuff like "Priest", "Carrie", and others.
These do count.
Even in video games, such as Dante's Inferno (a God of War rip off for XBox), Christians are portrayed as rapist murdering thieving mass genocidal hypocrites.
Even kid's movies, such as Pocahontas and The Hunchback of Notre Dame, portray Christians as zealous hateful bigoted murderers.
K, that' 5. many of these are very old.
Notice how you had to dig superficially to find something that negatively depicts christianity and chatholicism, and you probably would find more if you take the time to dig for more.
To find negative portrayals of islamic religions, you don't have to do any digging.
They are so omnipresent its impossible to NOT think of one.
True lies, Call of Duty 4, 24, scary movie 4 (ok it was comedy, but still), 300, Under Siege, Team America, The Dictator, ARMA, The West Wing, Time Scout, and dozens more.
I don't know how things are for you in Venezuela, but here in the USA, Christianity is a punching bag, and Muslims "aren't all like that".
Actually, in the USA, Christianity is parodied and satirized at best, and ridiculed difamated at worst, while Muslims are demonized and portrayed as actual dangerous people. The very fact that you need to say "they aren't all like that" shows that people are expecting them to be unstable fanatics.
Post by
Interest
Also, kids these days don't know how good they have it.
I had to play with spinning tops and marbles when I was a kid.
WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE.
Actually to be honest, given all the hype, I'm surprised we don't have flying cars yet. I know we're kinda in the development phase of it (or SOMETHING LIKE THAT)...but...
It uses your ZAM email to log in. You do not need to make a new one.
HOWEVER, you can link your summoner to the account, and you absolutely should.
I don't know why didn't tell you this at first but when i tried to log in with the ZAM email and password, it didn't let me log in.
To be honest I kinda derped and forgot...
Well if that doesn't work, I guess just make one and make it the same as your ZAM or something.
Post by
Rankkor
Also, kids these days don't know how good they have it.
I had to play with spinning tops and marbles when I was a kid.
WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE.
Actually to be honest, given all the hype, I'm surprised we don't have flying cars yet. I know we're kinda in the development phase of it (or SOMETHING LIKE THAT)...but...
Actually flying cars have been developed since the early 60s, but will never be a reality for a myriad of reasons.
For one thing, they had horrible mileage and horrible on-road handling as a car. The necessity of saving weight to make them flyable also meant a lot of the styling and comforts the public would expect from their car had to be stripped out. They also tended to handle worse as planes than comparably-sized private aircraft could, and the fact they never got popular meant they never got cheap enough for your average person to afford anyway.
To top all this off they would for all intents and purposes be personal aircrafts, and require the same regulations and specialized skill as planes and helicopters which is a big reason why we haven't seen any in our lifetimes. Plus they used up a lot of fuel only to achieve a very short distance flight, and had a penchant for crash-landing when they ran out. Even if ALL of these many many many problems were miraculously solved, the air traffic that would ensue would be ungovernable, and would lead to millions in property damage and loss of human life.
So no, flying cars will never happen. Once we're long past using fossil fuel, and once the average human intellect has advanced so that any schmuck can control an aircraft (With the full knowledge of aerodynamics that would affect your vehicle), it may happen. (really tiny maybe)
Post by
Interest
Yes. There is all that.
Post by
Nathanyal
Again, I ask of you to name-drop at least 10 recent works of fiction (Movies, games, or books) with terrorists or extremist villains that are religious-driven zealots but NOT muslims. (fake religions don't really count, ya know, cuz if we think about it Final Fantasy X has the yu-yevon church which is completely fake)
Go on, I'll wait.
I'll just post some lists instead of goin through each one, I get charged for my data and don't want to spend too much.
Here is one, just by looking there are several that occur in Germany.
Not trying to be an asshat or anything, but
here
is one about a Venuzulean (omg I spelled that correctly lol) terrorist. It came out in 2010.
Here
is a list by country of terrorist movies, both fiction and non-fiction.
I would go through them and weed out the ones that are Muslims, but I don't wanna go over my limit.
Post by
MyTie
depicted as barbaric homicidal terrorists is another.
If you could make a list of all terrorists in the world, would a larger percentage of that list be Muslim, or Christian?
Post by
ElhonnaDS
depicted as barbaric homicidal terrorists is another.
If you could make a list of all terrorists in the world, would a larger percentage of that list be Muslim, or Christian?
If you could make a list of all the rapists in the world, would a larger percentage be women or men? Does that make more difference than what percentage of the total population of men are rapists? Should we depict men as rapists because they are significantly statistically more likely to be so than women? Or should we look at what percentage of all men are rapists before we decide to start keeping an eye on all men just in case?
The statistics you're arguing aren't viable. If I say that one in a million people has blue hair naturally, and 2 in a million have green hair naturally, then it sounds like a lot more people have green hair if I say they're statistically twice as likely to have it. But if 2 in one million people have green hair, then it makes very little sense to say that all shops should have shampoo that caters to green-haired people because people are much more likely to be so than blue haired.
Also, I think you'd be surprised at the numbers. In predominantly Muslim countries, terrorists are more likely to be Muslim. in Northern Ireland, they were not. The various guerrilla groups and criminal cartels that use terror as a tactic to control the populations they operate around in many parts of Mexico and South America would statistically more likely identify themselves as Christian. Various guerrilla groups operating in the Congo, Rwanda, etc. would likely not identify as either.
And that's current day. Historically, many religions have made war on cultures and peoples, and used their religion to justify wiping out a heathen population, including Christianity. If you look at the way in which Christianity originally spread, it was often hand in hand with wholesale slaughter, the kidnapping and re-educating of children, the vilification of other societies so that their soldiers would march on them like they were less than human, etc. This pattern repeats often, fueled by religion, economic struggles, poverty, power-lust, etc. It's a generically human pattern, found among enough individuals that it is not uncommon, but not so many that it is generally accepted. The better way to fight it is to look at the factors that cause these cells to grow in ALL societies and cultures, not just the groups in which those groups are growing now. If we say that because the current terrorist groups we are dealing with are Muslim, we should find a way to deal with Islam, that teaches us nothing when the next group appears (and they will). If we look at common factors between all terrorist activity- now and historically- that is much more likely to net results.
I am not saying that there are not some really horrendous practices that people think that Islam justifies- there are a lot of problems in underdeveloped countries. But comparing a Muslim in the modern day US or Sweden to one who is currently living in Afghanistan serving in the Taliban is in many cases like comparing a modern day Christian to one who was involved in the inquisition. The culture of their upbringing incorporates their religion greatly, but the way in which the population practices said religion is very different. The main difference is that one separation was made by time, and the other is made by distance, money and secular influences.
I think the reason that people feel compelled to point it out is that whenever we discuss pedophilia in the Catholic Church, no one is in the background suggesting we round up all the Catholics and bomb them. No one is putting surveillance on all Catholic groups in an area to watch for pedophilia. No one is saying that they should start shooting the Catholics because someone must know who is doing this, and if we keep killing them someone will talk. And those sentiments are sentiments I have heard on this very forum, and in a number of extreme media sources. It's something I've heard said IRL when people discuss the war. There are enough people whose sentiment is that it's NOT obvious that it's a small percentage, and that it's NOT obvious that you can't start murdering all people of that group to make sure you "get them all" that it begs the disclaimer.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
Interest
Whoa...suddenly.
Post by
MyTie
Elhonna, your response is missing the context of my question. I'm not advocating for the portrayal of Muslims as violent. Rank pointed to a disparage between the common theme in media of terrorists being Muslim, and the lack of portrayal of other religions as terrorists. I countered that all religions are mocked openly in the media, but then rank insisted that Muslims are more predominate in the "terrorist" mockery, and that fact was incensing him.
Within that context, let's examine one of the points you made:If you could make a list of all the rapists in the world, would a larger percentage be women or men?When you watch movies, or play games, or read news, or enjoy whatever media you prefer, would you say there are more portrayals of men committing rape, or women committing rape? I'm going to go ahead and assume you are going to answer men. That's because, in all the instances of rape in the world, men are overwhelmingly the majority of the perpetrators. Therefore, when rape is referenced commonly, it is often associated with men, and rightfully so. If someone were to point to the fact that men are portrayed as rapists more often than women, and that is somehow wrong, I would counter that, in fact, more men are rapists than women, so it makes sense. That is exactly what I was explaining to rank. More Muslims are terrorists than Christians. Overwhelmingly so.
So, in context, my question is a legitimate one, and makes perfect sense in the conversation. To the rest of your post, I am not suggesting killing Muslims indiscriminately, or putting up surveillance based on their religion, or saying they are the only religion ever to experience a trend of violence, or any of that, so I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your post.
Edit: In fact, this is a pretty good example of what I was speaking about. I made a legitimate point that was critical of some Muslims. Then, someone rushed to the defense of Islam, with a variety of the "they aren't all like that" argument, when no "they are all like that argument" was made. This is very discussion stifling. I don't know why people have the mentality to rush that defense out there, when the opposite point was never made. Can we have an honest discussion about the issue of terrorists being predominately Muslim, or any discussion of Islam at all, without being irrelicated to this "they aren't all like that" argument? I feel stuck on square 1.
Post by
Rankkor
Again, I ask of you to name-drop at least 10 recent works of fiction (Movies, games, or books) with terrorists or extremist villains that are religious-driven zealots but NOT muslims. (fake religions don't really count, ya know, cuz if we think about it Final Fantasy X has the yu-yevon church which is completely fake)
Go on, I'll wait.
I'll just post some lists instead of goin through each one, I get charged for my data and don't want to spend too much.
Here is one, just by looking there are several that occur in Germany.
Here
is a list by country of terrorist movies, both fiction and non-fiction.
I would go through them and weed out the ones that are Muslims, but I don't wanna go over my limit.
I did said that media depictions of non-muslims do exist, but their ratio compared to media depictions of muslim terrorist is really onesided. Plus if you check, most of those productions are indie-ones. Low key, low advertised, non-american films, that aren't mainstream enterntainment.
Not trying to be an asshat or anything, but
here
is one about a Venuzulean (omg I spelled that correctly lol) terrorist. It came out in 2010.
You're not an asshat for pointing that one out :P Carlos was a real-life figure, and to try and pretend he didn't existed would be malicious. However, sorry to burst your bubble, but you spelled "Venezuelan" wrong.
If someone were to point to the fact that men are portrayed as rapists more often than women, and that is somehow wrong, I would counter that, in fact, more men are rapists than women, so it makes sense. That is exactly what I was explaining to rank.
More Muslims are terrorists than Christians.
Overwhelmingly so.
This is where you are wrong. This is what the media want you to believe. That if we put all the religious extremists in one room, the overwhelming majority of them will be islamic.
And yet, do you have any idea how many terrorists are in south america? From the Colombian Cartels and the FARCs, to the nicaraguan Contras, ect. None are muslims. There's also the ones in africa, there's the ones in asia, spain suffered a terrorist hit a few years back.
None of these were muslim.
The belief that most terrorists are muslim is a clishe perpetuated by the Media (specially american-made media, SPECIALLY videogames, much as i love videogames)
Is no more true than the clishe that most asians are kung fu experts, nor the one that all latinos are lazy thieving scoundrels, nor the one that says men are predominantly perverts who only wanna get laid.
I'm not blaming you for that, you seem genuinely convinced that really the overwhelming majority of terrorists are muslim. However, EVEN IF THAT WAS TRUE (and its not) does it make it fair to depict them as bad guys in most forms of entertainment? All that does is perpetuate a culture of fear against that specific ethnic group, so that when there is a terror attack, scared lynch mobs will target sheiks just for wearing a turban.
its the same as what you said about most rapists being men, therefore its ok to have almost all portrayals of rape in media be done by men, this also perpetuates the image that men have zero respect for women, and are lustful sex-obsessed machines who can't think of anything other than sex 24/7.
Its perpetuating a stereotype, one that once is deeply ingrained is VERY VERY HARD to root out.
its precisely thanks to that portrayal of rapists being almost always male (you'd be VERY hard pressed to find media portrayals of female rapists) that some people believe that men can't be raped. That if a woman sexually assaults a man, the man just got laid, and he should be happy. WHICH IS NOT TRUE >_>
The same water holds true for portrayals of most terrorists being muslims.
Post by
Haxzor
Lots of big posts, there's some kind of debate raging in here
Post by
Patty
Rank & Adams, please
do
take a cookie.
Unrelated, but
please take note
(
especially
before ever making any comments about transsexuals and/or gender roles)
Post by
392412
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Unrelated, but
please take note
(
especially
before ever making any comments about transsexuals and/or gender roles)
Fixed your link for you Patty.
And I got a cookie? For what lol.
Post by
Patty
When'd they talk about that? Should I be glad I haven't seen it?
No it's just pre-emptive for like everybody. I mean, I recall a while ago the whole argument of "well why not transspecies!" which again is crapped all over in the above, so figured I should link it.
Unrelated, but
please take note
(
especially
before ever making any comments about transsexuals and/or gender roles)
Fixed your link for you Patty.
And I got a cookie? For what lol.
Cheers! And for
this
, mostly. So yeah.
Post by
392412
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Heh, figured that was what it was for, but wasn't sure. Anyways, time to go work, later all.
Post by
Interest
Lots of big posts, there's some kind of debate raging in here
Oh? I didn't see.
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