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Post by
Pwntiff
Anyone who is a true "fundamentalist Christian" is quite tolerant and kind.
I'll agree with that on the caveat that Christian Fundamentalism, especially in the US, is applied to those who believe the Bible is the literal, infallible Word of God. I have absolutely no problem with people who choose to believe this as I don't have any desire to go about accusing people that their beliefs are wrong. It just seems that many of the more vocal Fundamentalists (and I will stipulate that this could be a very vocal minority) go out of their way to say that something that contradicts their personal belief is wrong, immoral, should be illegal, or is otherwise contributing to the degradation of society.
From a purely philosophical point of view, I may be more Christian than some Christians.
Post by
MyTie
Anyone who is a true "fundamentalist Christian" is quite tolerant and kind.
I'll agree with that on the caveat that Christian Fundamentalism, especially in the US, is applied to those who believe the Bible is the literal, infallible Word of God. I have absolutely no problem with people who choose to believe this as I don't have any desire to go about accusing people that their beliefs are wrong. It just seems that many of the more vocal Fundamentalists (and I will stipulate that this could be a very vocal minority) go out of their way to say that something that contradicts their personal belief is wrong, immoral, should be illegal, or is otherwise contributing to the degradation of society.
From a purely philosophical point of view, I may be more Christian than some Christians.
Applying the label "fundamentalist Christian" to a hateful group of people who do not practice the fundamentals of Christianity is quite irritating to people (like me) who try to be truly fundamentalist Christians.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I imagine it's equally annoying for the term "Muslim Fundamentalists" to be applied to a hateful group of Muslims who do not practice the fundamentals of Islam, to normal people who try to follow their faith and be good people.
Post by
Azazel
Anyone who is a true "fundamentalist Christian" is quite tolerant and kind.
I'll agree with that on the caveat that Christian Fundamentalism, especially in the US, is applied to those who believe the Bible is the literal, infallible Word of God. I have absolutely no problem with people who choose to believe this as I don't have any desire to go about accusing people that their beliefs are wrong. It just seems that many of the more vocal Fundamentalists (and I will stipulate that this could be a very vocal minority) go out of their way to say that something that contradicts their personal belief is wrong, immoral, should be illegal, or is otherwise contributing to the degradation of society.
From a purely philosophical point of view, I may be more Christian than some Christians.
Applying the label "fundamentalist Christian" to a hateful group of people who do not practice the fundamentals of Christianity is quite irritating to people (like me) who try to be truly fundamentalist Christians.
And the same goes for Atheists. I don't care what religion you belong to. You should be free to choose imo. But we also have a vocal minority shouting "God is stupid!" "Stop believing in imaginary friends!" etc. Vocal minorities happen way too often, heh.
Post by
MyTie
I imagine it's equally annoying for the term "Muslim Fundamentalists" to be applied to a hateful group of Muslims who do not practice the fundamentals of Islam, to normal people who try to follow their faith and be good people.
I agree. That is, unless the fundamentals of Islam are violent. I would have to study the Quran more intimately in order to be able to answer this question, though. I understand the Bible to know that those who believe in the fundamentals of Christianity do not march to houses of homosexuals, pitchforks and torches in hand, demanding their death.
Post by
Azazel
I imagine it's equally annoying for the term "Muslim Fundamentalists" to be applied to a hateful group of Muslims who do not practice the fundamentals of Islam, to normal people who try to follow their faith and be good people.
I agree. That is, unless the fundamentals of Islam are violent. I would have to study the Quran more intimately in order to be able to answer this question, though. I understand the Bible to know that those who believe in the fundamentals of Christianity do not march to houses of homosexuals, pitchforks and torches in hand, demanding their death.
Of course homosexuals have been hated. I'm sure a lot of them got beaten and stuff like that for being homosexual Christians. Not as a big thing, but at schools and the like. Maybe they aren't hunted in the same way here physically, but I doubt the two differ very much psychologically.
Post by
MyTie
Of course homosexuals have been hated. I'm sure a lot of them got beaten and stuff like that for being homosexual Christians. Not as a big thing, but at schools and the like. Maybe they aren't hunted in the same way here physically, but I doubt the two differ very much psychologically.
So you say that someone who hates people follows a book that says to love your family, love your neighbor, and love your enemy?
Post by
Azazel
Of course homosexuals have been hated. I'm sure a lot of them got beaten and stuff like that for being homosexual Christians. Not as a big thing, but at schools and the like. Maybe they aren't hunted in the same way here physically, but I doubt the two differ very much psychologically.
So you say that someone who hates people follows a book that says to love your family, love your neighbor, and love your enemy?
Sadly, yes. Some people do.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
It can also be said that a lot of people "love their enemy" but still have wildly inaccurate, ignorant or prejudiced ideas about them. To say I love people of X group, regardless of the fact that most of them are violent, thieving, sex deviants, because God says love everyone, is not necessarily a positive viewpoint to have. Yes, it's great that the person doesn't hate these people or want them harmed, but they still have this idea of who and what they are that is damaging. If you believe someone is likely to be a thief by virtue of their ethnicity, regardless of whether you hate them for it or not you probably won't give them a job as a bank teller. If you believe that someone is, because of the country they come from, probably hate-filled and violent, you may not hate them but you probably won't take the time to get to know about them or their culture. If you believe that the vocal, radical minority of a religion, and what the press hypes up about that minority, is the mainstream opinion, then you will act as though any acceptance of that religion is acceptance of the most extreme viewpoints that people attribute to it, and react accordingly, which is unfortunate and ignorant even when it's not malicious.
Post by
MyTie
So you say that someone who hates people follows a book that says to love your family, love your neighbor, and love your enemy?
Sadly, yes. Some people do.
Read the question again, carefully. The answer is quite clearly "no".
Think about that cruise ship that crashed. The captain had a chart that told him NOT to put the cruise ship where he put it when it wrecked. You can't say he was following his chart, because he clearly was not, because his chart told him one thing and he did another. He had a chart, and may say he follows his chart, but evidence exists to the contrary. These people who claim to follow the Bible, but don't follow the Bible, are not following the Bible. Simple logic.
Post by
gamerunknown
love your family
Well the New Testament does say to love your wife, but it also says that during the second coming families will be set against each other and children will put their parents to death (Matthew 10:21).
Edit oh and Matthew 10:35 may be more illustrative (I have come to set x against y) - prioritise one's belief over family.
They always seem to pick on Christianity the most, very rarely do you see discussion about other religions.
That's because of things like the Dover trial and no Republican senators believing in anthropogenic global warming and quite a few presidential candidates disbelieving in evolution, all proclaiming that they follow Christ. I also take issue with stuff like homeopathy, acupuncture, limits on free speech and late-term abortion, but people don't characterise me based on that.
core family units, western morality
Core family units?
Bos et al. in 2010
found that children raised by lesbian parents were higher in academic, social and total competence and lower in social problems and aggressive behaviour.
As for Western morality, I have no clue what you mean there. I don't think morality is limited to any particular domain. My core moral concepts are derived mainly from two Western philosophers, Locke and Mill, but if we take Japan as an example, they have a far
lower homicide rate
than any Western country. They're clearly doing something right.
Post by
240140
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azazel
So you say that someone who hates people follows a book that says to love your family, love your neighbor, and love your enemy?
Sadly, yes. Some people do.
Read the question again, carefully. The answer is quite clearly "no".
Think about that cruise ship that crashed. The captain had a chart that told him NOT to put the cruise ship where he put it when it wrecked. You can't say he was following his chart, because he clearly was not, because his chart told him one thing and he did another. He had a chart, and may say he follows his chart, but evidence exists to the contrary. These people who claim to follow the Bible, but don't follow the Bible, are not following the Bible. Simple logic.
But how can you tell that yours is the right way? And how can they claim their's is right too? It all boils down to how you understand it.
Basically what Elura said.
Post by
MyTie
love your family
Well the New Testament does say to love your wife, but it also says that during the second coming families will be set against each other and children will put their parents to death (Matthew 10:21).
What we are told to do, and prophecy of what will happen is quite different. I can say that people shouldn't murder each other, but I can predict that people will murder each other.
Post by
MyTie
But how can you tell that yours is the right way? And how can they claim their's is right too? It all boils down to how you understand it.
If I tell my kids, clearly, to wait until after dinner to eat ice cream, and then my daughter goes into the kitchen and scoops herself a bowl of vanilla, and then when I demand to know what she is doing and why, and she explains it like this: "You told me to wait until after dinner for ice cream, but I ate dinner last night so technically this is after dinner. It's all about how you understand it.", then she will be in trouble.
The Bible says not to act in a fashion of a lynch mob. It isn't unclear on the matter. You cannot interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what it says. I can understand some variation in understanding, and misunderstandings about certain topics. However, confrontation is extremely clear. It isn't murky at all.
My sermon two days ago was actually on confrontation.
Here are my sermon notes:
Look to the interests of others. Philippians 2:3-4
Do not let anger fester into sin. Ephesians 4:20-27
How to confront sin. Matthew 18:15-17
Confrontation is out of love. Proverbs 27:6-7
Confrontation is not to be done out of desire for division. Titus 3:10
Restore with gentleness. Galatians 6:1
Measure of morality is word of God. Hebrews 4:12 ; 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Post by
asakawa
But the Phelps family read the same bible and interpret it a very different way. I know that "Phelps" is practically a Godwin and I don't mean to be facetious but they would say that your interpretation of the text is incorrect would they not?(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
MyTie
But the Phelps family read the same bible and interpret it a very different way. I know that "Phelps" is practically a Godwin and I don't mean to be facetious but they would say that your interpretation of the text is incorrect would they not?
Yeah they would, but that doesn't make the "correct" interpretation subjective. 1+1=2. It isn't subjective, even if some people think 1+1=3, it doesn't make it subjective. When the Bible says to restore people with "gentleness" and to "love" your neighbor, it is as clear as 1+1=2. If people want to think that "gentleness" means picketing funerals, and "love" means making signs that say "God hates *!@s" then you have to be open to 1+1=3, or 1+1=9001 for that matter.
Post by
asakawa
Okay, so a less emotive example, Catholics disagree with Protestants. When the constitutional right to freedom of religion was created it was because there were different Christian sects that wanted to limit the power of other Christian sects over them.
Post by
MyTie
Okay, so a less emotive example, Catholics disagree with Protestants. When the constitutional right to freedom of religion was created it was because there were different Christian sects that wanted to limit the power of other Christian sects over them.
I already said that I can understand differences in parts of the Bible that aren't crystal clear. I think that with some study, conclusive answers can be reached about meaning without being subjective, but that's another topic entirely. What I am talking about are things that the Bible IS crystal clear about. Confrontation is clear, and actually, cannot be clearer. The language doesn't even hint at contradiction or unspecific behavior. Do this. Do not do this. Period.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I wouldn't touch than new thread with a ten foot pole- lol.
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