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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Mut Talent Vigor
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Post by
80430
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Post by
122037
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Post by
KidB
So in english for raiding would 20 energy better then 1% crit
No.
Post by
317222
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Post by
Gumog
For raiding,
Vigor
isn't all that useful. For leveling as Mutilate, it's
very
useful, especially once you
glyph
it for 70-80. Being able to Ambush -> Mutilate -> Eviscerate (or Ambush -> Shiv -> Mutilate, if the Ambush didn't proc your Wound Poison) without having to wait even an extra second or two for your Engergy to regenerate is very nice and makes things a bit safer as you're usually taking one or two hits fewer from the non-elites you're grinding through for quests...
Post by
80430
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Post by
KidB
You're doing it wrong.
Lol the irony.
Post by
282564
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Post by
249701
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205177
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Post by
Zxian
I've got Vigor talented, and as others have pointed out, the added 20 energy (with the glyph) makes a big difference on FoK spamming as well as the start of a fight (trash or otherwise). I'm able to get my rotation up and going far more easily than without it, and more often than not I'm able to pull off Garotte-SnD-Mut-Mut-Env without having to wait for energy regen.
I'm really confused about why people choose to max out Relentless strikes over CQC. In a full 25-man raid, you regen the 25 energy so quickly anyways, and there are many times that you don't pull off a 5-point finisher (since you never want to waste 60 energy for that last one CP). Training yourself to rely on energy that might not be there is a bit strange - why not think of it as an added bonus when it happens? The added 3% crit chance makes a much bigger improvement IMO (and from my testing so far) in terms of overall energy regen and damage done.
Post by
238445
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Post by
KidB
Works perfectly, and i do more DPS ontest dummies than cookie cutter build.
Sure you do.
Post by
Zxian
Works perfectly, and i do more DPS ontest dummies than cookie cutter build.
Sure you do.
While I don't agree with Madplayer's build, the "standard" Mutilate build actually isn't all that great unless you're fully geared in T7, run only 25-man content, have expertise capped, and have hit above the poison cap. All of this takes time to build up to, and is not the norm for most people playing.
if you have a look at
my talent spec
, you'll see a couple of things that help out on the training dummy, as well as for day to day playing.
First off - trading 3 points in Turn the Tables for Master Poisoner. This one was a no-brainer for me. 3% crit chance on poisoned targets (i.e. all the time) vs a conditiona 6% on finishers only?
Secondly - Murder only applies to certain targets. Going into CoS or Naxx? Bye-bye 2 talent points. Shove those into Fleet-footed and you'll be able to run back to a boss that's knocked you back sooner, or you'll be able to get out of harms way that much easier.
Finally, and this is the one that people can debate until they're blue in the face. I took out the three points from Ruthlessness and put them into Vigor and Quick Recovery. Vigor helps in terms of getting rotations up as quickly as possible, which sometimes does happen mid-fight. Quicky Recovery isn't really as necessary if you're hit-capped, but healers will still love you for it, and you get even more benefit when running with a blood DK.
I also made the switch from 3/5 CQC and 5/5 Relentless Strikes to the other way around. Again, crit = energy, so the more you stack, the more energy you have and the easier it is for you to keep SnD and Rupture up at all times (something that can be difficult when people first make the switch).
And yes, there was an increase in DPS when I switched from "cookie cutter" to my build. I really don't feel bad getting 5th highest in 25-man vault behind fully geared Warlocks and Mages who get to sit still and just spam their casts. For a rogue without any T7 gear yet (haven't won the roll yet - argh), I'd say that's not half bad.
Post by
KidB
While I don't agree with Madplayer's build, the "standard" Mutilate build actually isn't all that great unless you're fully geared in T7, run only 25-man content, have expertise capped, and have hit above the poison cap. All of this takes time to build up to, and is not the norm for most people playing.
False. The build is equally effective in both 10 and 25-man raids, ie, provides more damage than combat.
if you have a look at
my talent spec
, you'll see a couple of things that help out on the training dummy, as well as for day to day playing.
Training dummy = anecdotal experience.
First off - trading 3 points in Turn the Tables for Master Poisoner. This one was a no-brainer for me. 3% crit chance on poisoned targets (i.e. all the time) vs a conditiona 6% on finishers only?
Taking master poisoner over turn the tables is considered default if you have noone to provide the 3% crit debuff on targets (paladins and elemental shamen). Additionally, turn the tables does not work on finishers, rather it works on everything BUT finishers (combo move = ability that creates combo points). It's by no means "conditional". It has a near-100% uptime in a raid.
Secondly - Murder only applies to certain targets. Going into CoS or Naxx? Bye-bye 2 talent points. Shove those into Fleet-footed and you'll be able to run back to a boss that's knocked you back sooner, or you'll be able to get out of harms way that much easier.
That's fine too, and explained in the sticky.
Finally, and this is the one that people can debate until they're blue in the face. I took out the three points from Ruthlessness and put them into Vigor and Quick Recovery. Vigor helps in terms of getting rotations up as quickly as possible, which sometimes does happen mid-fight. Quicky Recovery isn't really as necessary if you're hit-capped, but healers will still love you for it, and you get even more benefit when running with a blood DK.
This is by no means debatable. That is the talent that is most vital to a mutilate build. Vigor is downright wasted in a raiding build, as is quick recovery if you're expertise-capped (which you should be as mutilate).
I also made the switch from 3/5 CQC and 5/5 Relentless Strikes to the other way around. Again, crit = energy, so the more you stack, the more energy you have and the easier it is for you to keep SnD and Rupture up at all times (something that can be difficult when people first make the switch).
2 points in relentless strikes will provide more energy and dps than two points in CQC.
And yes, there was an increase in DPS when I switched from "cookie cutter" to my build. I really don't feel bad getting 5th highest in 25-man vault behind fully geared Warlocks and Mages who get to sit still and just spam their casts. For a rogue without any T7 gear yet (haven't won the roll yet - argh), I'd say that's not half bad.
Anecdotal experience.
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