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Succubus PVP
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Post by
EvilElpay
I understand that warlocks are having difficulty in PVP. I know that the majority of the warlock community prefer affliction and prefer to not use a succubus. Try this out or take a glance and let me know what you think. (This is not a Seduce / Soul Fire spec)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZ0gcusg0Accg0VoE00Vr
Basically, the point is CC and doing fairly decent damage otherwise. I built this in mind for a 5v5 team. The strength with this spec is that one can seduce one target, fear a second, and dps a third. When diminishing returns apply, then you can seduce the fourth target, fear the fifth target, and continue to dps the original third target.
Survivability talents:
Soul Link, Metamorphosis, Demonic Resilience, Demonic Degis, Fel Vitality, and Demonic Embrace.
Survivability is hard to come by when resilience max resilience with current gear only reducing your crit strikes taken by about 10%. All of these talents will increase your health, help mitigate the damage, increase armor and healing received if wearing Demonic Armor, and provide a 3 minute cooldown that reduces damage, reduces duration of stuns and snares, and increases armor by 600%. There is no better survivability spec.
Control Talents:
Improved Succubus, Fel Domination, Improved Health Funnel, Master Summoner, Mana Feed, Fel Synergy.
I know that demonology warlocks will feel naked without a felguard, but the most control a felguard brings is a 3 second stun if he charges. With Improved Succubus and Mana Feed you succubus will seduce and re-seduce almost constantly as long as you life tap enough to feed her more mana. The other listed talents either keep her alive or bring her back if you lose her. Also, please note her survivability has been greatly improved since BC. Her armor provides about 40% physical mitigation and she had nearly as much health as the warlock. I wouldn’t consider her squishy anymore, but the talents greatly health.
Damage Talents:
Unholy Power, Master Demonologist, Demonic Knowledge, Demonic Tactics, Demonic Pact, Metamorphosis, Bane, Improved Shadow Bolt, Ruin, Intensity, Destructive Reach.
As far as my damage goes, we are sadly looking at shadow bolt spam. I know that is everyone favorite, (/sarcasm) but the damage seems to do alright. The major benefit is shadow bolt doesn’t apply a dot so switching seduce targets isn’t a conflict. There are a lot of increased damage modifiers, increased spell power, and increased crit. Having range and less pushback are always a plus.
Improved A. I. :
The succubus’s artificial intelligence has also been enhanced. Once it determines that there is multiple humanoid targets, it will automatically seduce and reapply seduce on it’s target. The only reason she won’t is either if the target is immune, or if the target has a damage over time effect applied (no longer stops when you cast direct damage), or if there is only 1 target available. She will then target any other humanoid in combat with you and seduce it instead. She also
DOESN’T
take any penalty from pushback.
Sidenote:
Demonic Pact was 5 burn talents I got just in case to buff my healers, fellow casters, and me. I don’t expect it to be up often as the Succubus is not critting when she is seducing. However, all of the other talents options seemed lackluster because they required the pet to dps as well. Feel free to switch these points as needed if you are not getting the buff as often as you want.
So that is my goal and my analysis of this spec. I know it’s not a drain life happy spec, it’s not a demonology spec with a felgaurd, and it doesn’t have as much burst damage as destruction. I think that if you try it though, you and your team mates will be happy. You can CC all of your opposing teams healers, or 2 of their dps. With as much burst damage as there is right now in PVP, both are really good options. Feel free to post
POSITIVE
feedback or
FRIENDLY
constructive criticism.
Post by
251168
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
EvilElpay
You are 100% correct. If you fear and seduce the same target it's no good. You want to do something like this.
Start of combat....
Target 1 Feared
Target 2 Seduced
Target 3 Dps
Target 4
Target 5
When DR kicks in....
Target 1 Immune
Target 2 Immune
Target 3 dps
Target 4 Feared
Target 5 Seduces
When DR kicks in
Target 1 Feared
Target 2 Seduced
Target 3 DPS, or dead hopefully
Target 4 Immune
Target 5 Immune
Hopefully that clears up the rotation with a visual. Also, pvp trinkets are 2 minute cooldown, so be ready for this but realize it is only once in the rotation per 2 minutes.
Post by
251168
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Spudnik
While I personally use (and love) the Succubus, I'd say you're better off taking the FG that far down in the tree. just do this: put it on defensive, put it on stay, put intercept on autocast and then run around near it. If a rouge or kitty pops up behind you, they will immediately get stunned, giving you time to escape.
For non invisible ones, just have him on follow as usual, but turn of autocast for charge, that gives you more control over the extra 3s stun.
Post by
Kobrakai
You're still gimping yourself by not running your Felguard. Any team, especially in 5's, will be able to burn down your Succy almost instantaneously. There isn't really any point to speccing that deep in Demo and running with weak DoTs, Shadowbolts etc. You'll do such negligible damage you'll be a liability to your team.
Post by
294157
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Grindalwald
just do this: put it on defensive, put it on stay, put intercept on autocast and then run around near it.Just as you never leave a fellhunter's spell lock on auto cast, you never leave intercept on autocast. I put mine on stay and passive, with intercept not on auto cast, if you use defensive stance he will run towards the attacker and might get to close to intercept. Plus, if on defensive stance and intercept is on autocast, then if someone attacks you felguard will intercept, which if its a druids treant or a mirror image than its a wasted intercept. Use intercept wisely and keep it keybound, it will save your life or extinguish another's if used properly.
Post by
EvilElpay
I greatly appreciate all of your info. Some things you guys reccomended I look into....
Succy will get burned down in 5v5's fast.
- I agree that she is a reliability, but she is not the squishy pet she used to be. She now has 40-45% mitigation from armor when she used to be 20%. She has almost as much health as I do. I can honestly say she is just under the Felguard in survivability. In fact, she has a better chance at surviving that I do.
Use a Felguard's Charge for a 3 second stun
- While I have done this strat, it was something I found less reliable for effective CC. Mainly because after 3 seconds and with such a long cooldown it isn't a reliable spammable CC. The point of this spec is to
attempt
to lock down 2 players out of the fight. In BC I used to do this and not focus on damage and it got me in the 1800 bracket. That is not #1 I know, but I am proud of it.
Going this deep means you need a Felguard for DPS
- This is not true. For top damage, yes, but the succy can still do a decent amount of damage that is just under the Felguard.
Your dots and shadow bolts are going to be weak
- First, I will be shadow bolt spamming. All of the talents for DPS are focused on direct, crittable, shadow damage, (in otherwords Shadowbolt). Therefore no dots will be in play. Second, my damage will be weaker but not dramatically. The damage difference isn't as bad as most would think. You could also think of it in a different way. Instead of 200 - 300 lost dps, think about how much dps your opponent loses when seduced, or even better healing.
You can't take out a 5v5 team yourself
- I don't plan to. I am simply stating what I can bring to the other 4 members of my team. Sorry if I was giving the impression that I was going to fight 5 people at once by myself.
Post by
sasexw
These you say have some logical, but still the only point i will give you is that Seduction is Magic.
Post by
305827
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kobrakai
I greatly appreciate all of your info. Some things you guys reccomended I look into....
Succy will get burned down in 5v5's fast.
- I agree that she is a reliability, but she is not the squishy pet she used to be. She now has 40-45% mitigation from armor when she used to be 20%. She has almost as much health as I do. I can honestly say she is just under the Felguard in survivability. In fact, she has a better chance at surviving that I do.
Use a Felguard's Charge for a 3 second stun
- While I have done this strat, it was something I found less reliable for effective CC. Mainly because after 3 seconds and with such a long cooldown it isn't a reliable spammable CC. The point of this spec is to
attempt
to lock down 2 players out of the fight. In BC I used to do this and not focus on damage and it got me in the 1800 bracket. That is not #1 I know, but I am proud of it.
Going this deep means you need a Felguard for DPS
- This is not true. For top damage, yes, but the succy can still do a decent amount of damage that is just under the Felguard.
Your dots and shadow bolts are going to be weak
- First, I will be shadow bolt spamming. All of the talents for DPS are focused on direct, crittable, shadow damage, (in otherwords Shadowbolt). Therefore no dots will be in play. Second, my damage will be weaker but not dramatically. The damage difference isn't as bad as most would think. You could also think of it in a different way. Instead of 200 - 300 lost dps, think about how much dps your opponent loses when seduced, or even better healing.
You can't take out a 5v5 team yourself
- I don't plan to. I am simply stating what I can bring to the other 4 members of my team. Sorry if I was giving the impression that I was going to fight 5 people at once by myself.
So you expect your healer(s) to somehow be able to focus their healing on your Succubus, which has absolutely no defense mechanisms, and ignore teammates, in order to keep her up? And you expect to be able to constantly cast Shadowbolts, one of a Lock's longest cast offensive spells, without being stunned/interrupted/silenced etc. etc. ? And your teammates to perfectly stop DPS on each individual opponent just in time to not break Seduce as you somehow cycle through targets to avoid diminishing returns, with disregard to AoE effects as well?
I don't mean to be a prick, but good luck. It won't work. Not well, anyway.
Post by
EvilElpay
These you say have some logical, but still the only point i will give you is that Seduction is Magic.
Yeah, not much I can do about constant dispells. My thought was that if she is instant seducing then it would still be viable even after diminishing returns because she automatically re-seduces a target that isn't immune. So far I have never had the whole opposing team immune to seduce yet. Seeing as she does it on auto cast with her new AI, I just throw it up and let her seduce. If anything it keeps the healers constantly dispelling instead of healing.
you forgot something
succubus is almost 1 shoted
she cant even survive incoming damage from your soullink.
This is not ture anymore. She has about 1-2K less health than me and she has about 45% mitigation from armor alone. This is not including all of the talent based mitigation.
So you expect your healer(s) to somehow be able to focus their healing on your Succubus, which has absolutely no defense mechanisms, and ignore teammates, in order to keep her up? And you expect to be able to constantly cast Shadowbolts, one of a Lock's longest cast offensive spells, without being stunned/interrupted/silenced etc. etc. ? And your teammates to perfectly stop DPS on each individual opponent just in time to not break Seduce as you somehow cycle through targets to avoid diminishing returns, with disregard to AoE effects as well?
I wouldn't expect my healers to heal my pet, that is my job. With improved health funnel, her increased health since the release of WotLK, and talents, she actually can survive better than I can.
As far as SB spam a 2.5 second cast isn't too bad. If I was affliction and dotting I would have the same conflicts with stuns and silences as any caster of any spec would have. The kicks can be a conflict as it would to an affliction lock draining life or casting fear. There really is no escape from this conflict from respeccing, so there really is no point in saying that this is a bad spec because of it.
I also wouldn't expect anyone to stop DPS on the kill target so I could seduce them. As I had previously posted in great detail multiple times I only switch CC to non-kill targets. If anyone is casting AOE's when the rest of the team is trying to seduce, poly, ice trap, well, obviously that isn't going to work. That is why we don't AOE with CC in arenas.
I do appreciate the posts you guys are replying with. The main thing that I see going wrong with this spec is trigger happy dispellers. This is something I am currently looking into. Other than that, the survivability of the pet is under-rated. If there are other things you guys can see improvements on let me know.
Please try to avoid posting conflicts with class mechanics instead of spec mechanics. If it is a mechanic that every spec of warlocks can't overcome, well, that doesn't really help me improve my spec if there is nothing I can do improve on it except to roll a different class.
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