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Warrior vs Paladin !
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Post by
Sherif
Let's be practical people,I do have a tankadin raiding naxx. easily but iam sick of hearing people taking about warriors as gods.
What is the difference,On my calculation...Iam better than a warrior prot. in tanking (Who nearly own the same gear),Beside that iam always the second or even the first on the damage p/s meter.
Would somebody please,Give me one evidence on this lie : (A warrior is always better than a paladin in tanking).
Why do people say :The Warrior is best tank in game ?
Post by
Sherif
I just posted this topic to show my own reasons for prefering protection paladin over the protection warrior and here are some of them....
1-The (Divine Strength) talent which gives 15% strength...While a warrior has a 6% bonus from (vitality) talent...Strength improves block value by (Strength / 2), rounding down, for all classes capable of blocking.
2-I wont talk about a 10% all states in the Improved Blessing of Kings.
3-A paladin does own a 12% physical damage reduction and a 18% spell reduction > a warrior who has a 10% physical damage redction and a 16% spell reduction.
4-A paladin has a 14% bonus stamina from talents (Sacred Duty and Combat Expertise),A warrior has just a 6% bonus stamina from (vitality) talent.
5-There is Lay on hands.
6-The (Heart of the crusader) talent gives the whole raid a 3% extra critical chance.
7-A paladin begins the tanking process with full mana,A warrior may have rage,But not enough rage.
P.S. I wont talk about the 102.4% avoidence because i expect any pro. tank to achieve it before talking about advantages and disadvantages.
Post by
pak52b
being spell dependant and getting silenced on the first boss in the spider wing (or other bosses) for example..
and if you, as a tank, are first on dps, im wondering what kind of group you take with you...
(A warrior is always better than a paladin in tanking).
that is not true... it all depends on the situation.
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Post by
kennybob
While I agree it depends on the fight. Warrior tanks seem to have a few advantages that pallies do not. To my knowledge, without looking, pallies do not have a spell reflect, increasing the damage done to the mob and the boss. Then also the other abilities like Shield Wall and Last Stand with the Enraged regeneration make the warrior have a higher chance to beable to take a higher damage bosses. Yes, I know pallies have LoH which is a nice ability to have, though the cooldown for this isnt the greatest, makeing the warrior, with their CD 5 or even 3 min, for groups lacking the dps for a fast drop the more ideal boss.
As for energy. Yes pallies start with it and warriors dont, however a pally can get mana burned in certian fights making the tanking time a little less for them.
And a bit of info for those into naxx. The first boss in the arachnid quarter is much easier with a warrior MT. The way we have done it is instead of the danceing fight we stationary tank him healing through the swam while he is useing SW for the frist swam then LS for the 2nd, and if need be the ER for the 3rd.
Post by
Sakkura
I just posted this topic to show my own reasons for prefering protection paladin over the protection warrior and here are some of them....
1-The (Divine Strength) talent which gives 15% strength...While a warrior has a 6% bonus from (vitality) talent...Strength improves block value by (Strength / 2), rounding down, for all classes capable of blocking.
2-I wont talk about a 10% all states in the Improved Blessing of Kings.
3-A paladin does own a 12% physical damage reduction and a 18% spell reduction > a warrior who has a 10% physical damage redction and a 16% spell reduction.
4-A paladin has a 14% bonus stamina from talents (Sacred Duty and Combat Expertise),A warrior has just a 6% bonus stamina from (vitality) talent.
5-There is Lay on hands.
6-The (Heart of the crusader) talent gives the whole raid a 3% extra critical chance.
7-A paladin begins the tanking process with full mana,A warrior may have rage,But not enough rage.
P.S. I wont talk about the 102.4% avoidence because i expect any pro. tank to achieve it before talking about advantages and disadvantages.
1. Warriors have critical block.
2. Of course not, because the whole raid will have that buff, including the prot warrior and the prot paladin.
3. Wrong, the paladin has a 9% damage reduction from all sources plus a further 6% reduction vs. spell damage. The warrior has a 10% damage reduction from all sources plus a further 6% reduction vs. spell damage. Both also have access to a buff that reduces damage taken by 3%.
4. Yes, but the warrior has a higher base health and access to a ranged weapon which provides stamina.
5. There is shield wall, last stand, enraged regeneration and shield block. Your point?
6. So does totem of wrath and master poisoner. The warrior can provide either a major health buff or a major attack power buff to the whole raid.
7. A warrior will usually start with 25 rage from improved charge, plus 10-20 (or 15-30 if talented) from bloodrage, plus an increased rage generation from damage taken within the first few seconds. That is plenty to frontload threat reliably. Warriors also cannot run out of mana.
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Post by
Timmeh
This thread just reads "wah wah wah, my class is better than yours, but nobody appreciates me!" which frankly just comes off a little childish.
As someone in the rare position of having both a protection warrior and paladin, here is my (hopefully) balanced view on things.
Warriors and paladins are different. Warriors excel at some things, Paladins at others. Trying to assess which is "better" without looking at a set of testing criteria is plain silly. The triangle of good tanking (with a point at each corner) considers Mitigation, Survival and Threat so I'll consider each of these individually.
Mitigation:
Warriors and Paladins have roughly the same talents and abilities in many respects, shield wall (albeit by a different name for Paladins), toughness, anticipation, deflection etc are common to both for starters. Paladins have the (fantastic) ardent defender and blocking talents such as holy shield and redoubt, warriors have critical block, shield block and spell reflection. It's all rather situational; ardent defender certainly makes for a wonderful talent (especially for large trash pulls), however, in many boss fights, by the time you're low enough to matter, its use for pure mitigation can be somewhat limited. Spell reflection is again situational, can be a fantastic talent or can be utterly useless, depending on the boss and encounter. It's a little too tight to call for me, ardent defender is great, but warriors can vastly reduce the amount of damage they take over time with powerful melee blocks and spell reflection.
Survival:
Paladins get the most stamina from their talents, but then lose a fair chunk from not being able to equip an item with stamina in their ranged slot. Ardent defender could also be considered for survival, and adds a fair amount to eff. health. Warriors come with a slightly greater amount of base stamina and come with last stand as a panic button, although that has the cooldown to consider. I spent some time with effective health theories, crunching numbers just because that's the sort of thing I like to do, considering the impact that talents and gear has, looking at my warrior's present tanking gear, then transposing it exactly (with a tanking libram) as if it was a paladin. Effective health theory suggests that there is next to nothing in it. And I mean so little I'm not even going to say who won, it may as well be exactly the same.
Threat:
This is a contentious one as it is the most situational and reliant on the RNG, but it is also by a mile the least important in WotLK. As it's nearly impossible to accurately measure such a variable statistic, I will use situational examples. There is an exceptional protection paladin in my guild, great awareness, never makes mistakes, generally a top notch player. While playing my warrior I consider myself (without trying to sound like an arrogant asshat) to be fairly well skilled. As a rule, if he is supposed to be tanking a boss (getting the usual 3-5 second headstart on threat), I cannot catch him even if I try. If I'm supposed to be tanking it, again with said lead, he cannot catch me, no matter how hard he tries. Warriors gain rage from being hit, paladins gain mana from being hit and then healed. In my own opinion, warriors tend to have better burst threat on a single target while paladins can easily aoe tank many mobs. You know what though? All of that is purely academic. When said paladin is beating me, I'm always a mile above the highest dpser and when I'm beating him, he's likewise far, far above the closest dps. So why does threat matter? I don't see that it does post 3.0. Tanks will always top.
So, in conclusion, which class is best? Well, neither. Both can perform any tanking role perfectly well. Warriors and Paladins are slightly better or worse at different things, but ultimately they're very similar and should be considered on their merits for each situation. There is no "best", in fact the mere idea of a "best" is plain stupid.
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306782
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Post by
Shiverlynn
I'd just say...
Once upon a time, warriors were the only viable tanking class.
4 years after, some people still cling to their old habits.
There's no need for a warrior vs paladin comparison. Old habits are persistent. At the beginning of BC it was "lol druids aren't tanks", then it was "lol paladins aren't tanks", now it is "lol DKs aren't tanks". The only tank "who is a tank" is warrior because they have always been, and that's why many people still treat them as gods.
May not be an explanation to every time you hear someone tell you warriors are the best, but I'm sure this is true sometimes.
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