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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Reckoning talent in prot spec
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Post by
108092
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Post by
106896
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Post by
blademeld
What are your thoughts on the talent Reckoning as a Prot pally?
As any other experienced protection paladin can tell you, at the beginning stages of a tank it's good, but as you progress, your gear gets better, you take less damage, and it stops becoming worth the talent point.
You can choose to disagree, but let's not do it here, make a new thread for it if you think differently please, I have a feeling we can get a lot of chat over this if anyone chooses to do so.
Post by
Greatbrae
It all depends what kind of seal user you are, if your a sov seal user, then yes it's useless, if your a sor seal user, then yes it's useful.
Post by
92157
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Post by
103599
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Post by
Blightman
It loses usefulness as you avoidance goes up. Basically, every 1%dodge/parry you pick up is a 1% reduction in the chance Reckoning will proc. Not saying its bad just saying those 5 talent points might be better spent elsewhere if you avoidance is high enough
Post by
108092
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Post by
zoomie
You guys are forgetting that the main strength a paladin has over warriors and druids is that they can tank multipul mobs at once and easily hold aggro. A paladin tank can hold 7-8 mobs while all the other classes AOE them. It doesn't matter what your avoidance is. If you have a lot of people swinging at you, your reckoning and devout are going to stay proced. And as it was leveling and grinding, 4 extra swings and 4 extra SOR hits in 8 seconds is huge for maintaining aggro.
Post by
blademeld
And as it was leveling and grinding, 4 extra swings and 4 extra SOR hits in 8 seconds is huge for maintaining aggro.
only while FF
if you're pulling 7-8 elites, chances are no one will be FF'ing
Post by
89501
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Post by
Doogal
I dont think ive seen a decent pally without it.
The biggest caveat to pally tanking in a 25 man is that it takes longer to get, and hold agro, and is damn near impossible without concecrate. One of the BEST ways to counter this is to use SoR and reckoning. Combined, with crusader will make you almost impossible to pull from.
Besides which, pallies should be doing their best to stack, parry, and block not evade. Evade is useful to an extent but id rather my pallies stack mitigation to blows and keep their threat high than not get hit at all, and get no mana regen, and much lower threat.
Not sure where you were going with this...
Dodge is one of the most valuable talents there is, especially for paladins where rage does not become a factor, any times that they are not getting hit the better for the healers!
With reckoning relying on actually being hit it would lead to later instances requiring the tank to be hit less as the damage will be significantly higher ergo less reckoning procs, a suitable build for great tanking would be
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dMgqtVbx
Post by
89501
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Post by
zoomie
I dont think ive seen a decent pally without it.
The biggest caveat to pally tanking in a 25 man is that it takes longer to get, and hold agro, and is damn near impossible without concecrate. One of the BEST ways to counter this is to use SoR and reckoning. Combined, with crusader will make you almost impossible to pull from.
Besides which, pallies should be doing their best to stack, parry, and block not evade. Evade is useful to an extent but id rather my pallies stack mitigation to blows and keep their threat high than not get hit at all, and get no mana regen, and much lower threat.
Not sure where you were going with this...
Dodge is one of the most valuable talents there is, especially for paladins where rage does not become a factor, any times that they are not getting hit the better for the healers!
With reckoning relying on actually being hit it would lead to later instances requiring the tank to be hit less as the damage will be significantly higher ergo less reckoning procs, a suitable build for great tanking would be
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dMgqtVbx
You seem to be forgetting that paladins are experts at tanking multi mobs. It doesn't matter what your dodge change is or your parry or block chance is. While tanking multipul mobs you will be getting hit and you will be procing reckoning and you will be procing redoubt. And if you are tanking a single target it will still proc. The thing you guys are all assuming is that reckoning makes or breaks holding aggro. It doesn't. If you have to rely on procs you are NOT playing right. It is a must for tanking though. Paladin tank gear doesn't has much less dodge than defense shield block and parry. Look up belt of the guardian and boots of the protector. Pattern drops frmo TK and SSC. Look up the dungeon 3 set. Look up the tier 4 5 and 6 sets. Dodge is there but very little dodge is there. Paladins gear is stacked with shield block stats more than anything else. Then parry, then dodge. And what if you block? Haven't you noticed that a damage still gets through when you block a lot of the time? If damage gets through, you still get hit, and you still proc reckoning and redoubt.
You guys need to research your info before you start yapping the wrong info. You sound like Homer Simpson "I gave him the directions, even though I didn't know the way!" Reckoning is a must. Just because you have abilities to not get hit, and it procs off getting hit, doesn't mean it doesn't prot. It is very effective and a paladin tank without reckoning is worthless.
Post by
42092
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Post by
Blightman
You guys are forgetting that the main strength a paladin has over warriors and druids is that they can tank multipul mobs at once and easily hold aggro. A paladin tank can hold 7-8 mobs while all the other classes AOE them. It doesn't matter what your avoidance is. If you have a lot of people swinging at you, your reckoning and devout are going to stay proced. And as it was leveling and grinding, 4 extra swings and 4 extra SOR hits in 8 seconds is huge for maintaining aggro.
Not saying its bad what I'm saying is that at level 70 you get 61 talent points to spend. Too me 5/5 One -Handed Weapon Spec> 5/5 Reckoning for generating threat. And 5/5 Combat Expertise > 5/5 Reckoning all around.and 5/5 Ardent Defender is more important for tanking than 5/5 Reckoning. I can go on but the base point is if you build into Ret to get Deflection and PoJ(for spell dodge) you don't have a lot of spare talent points.
Couple that with the reduction of the rate it will proc as your gear gets better compared to how every other "core" prot talent only gets better as gear gets better
puts it 1st on my list of "where do I move points from".
Post by
Blightman
Im sure there are others as well. Bottom line, while you do want a baseline of decent dodge, i would MUCH rather my tanks stack parry and block than dodge. (albeit i'd still rather have dodge than nothing)
Both Parry and Dodge reduce the chance Reckoning will proc.
Post by
Greatbrae
There is no confirmation as of yet that parry is complete avoidance, being that it's a block with a weapon, if you guys go saying that it's like dodge, show the evidence. And don't show the wowwiki, it does not say on there whether if it's a hit or not.
Post by
Blightman
There is no confirmation as of yet that parry is complete avoidance, being that it's a block with a weapon, if you guys go saying that it's like dodge, show the evidence. And don't show the wowwiki, it does not say on there whether if it's a hit or not.
Fine, check you combat log. I just checked my for the past 1/2 hour and never saw any damage listed after a parry. I do see damage listed after blocks but not parry or dodges.
Let me know if your log shows otherwise
Post by
89501
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