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Rend and Tear...... your opinions
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170154
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109094
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144872
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238149
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238004
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Post by
Erlinn
I'm going to be a nice as possible, as you've said you're not very expeirenced with druid theorycrafting.
You're two builds are so flawed that they make my eyes hurt, but thats not what this thread is about. But I must say that putting full points into Feral Aggression and only one into Rend and Tear is sooooo n00bish it would have burned my eyebrows off had I not been prepared from reading your description first. Feral Aggression should NEVER been taken. Ever. I don't care what you intend to do, it is a garbage talent and that's all it will ever be. And why in a tanking spec you'd put points into Nurturing Instincts (read the tooltip closely) is absolutely beyond me. The lack of Infected Wounds is just apalling for a tanking build as well.
Aaaaah I said I wouldn't talk about how horrid your builds are (which they both are) because it's off topic so I'll get back to Rend and Tear.
R&T is debatably the most important talent in the feral tree. It is basically a flat 20% damage increase, which coupled with Naturalist, is amazing for both DPS and tanking. Not taking it so you can take Natural and Master Shapeshifter is a mistake outright.
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238149
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238004
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144872
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174429
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Post by
samarium
Rend and Tear is a necessity if you want to keep up. Maul is an essential part of a bear's tanking arsenal, and Shred is... only the most important DPS attack we have.
Whether you want to tank or kitty DPS or pvp, 5/5 Rend and Tear is baseline.
Post by
razzem
Damage Per Energy... Improved Mangle and simply Mangle spamming seems like a very good option for leveling from 70-80. Especially with Idol of Terror, which most ferals have.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxMGcsrdoeR0hzhZ0Eczb
You could go with Shredding Attacks or Nurturing Instincts, whatever you think will help your grind more... sort of your choice really. But I don't see a huge gain for R&T which makes you miss out on OOC and MSS in Resto... especially when Mangle is pretty darn close to shred in terms of energy to damage ratio.
Each to their own, of course. My next points would be in Tiger's Fury awesomeness!
Post by
144872
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Post by
razzem
Hah! If you've never gotten OOC to proc you some extra shreds so that you can fit 3 in during a Pounce stun, I feel sorry for you!
Sure, you can take OOC and barely get full R&T, but it means giving up other great cat skills. Up to you of course. I expect a full, angry, blasting "I have the right answers b/c I am Foley, and there is only one right build!" remark from you that you typically give in every thread, and that's ok, that's your personality. I'm offering my opinion; I happen to see some value number-wise in DPE use of Mangle while leveling. You, however, do not. That's fine, we disagree, you don't like my opinions and playstyle, so your point has been noted via your response and attitude, you can let it drop now.
Post by
144872
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Post by
razzem
Therefore, yes... your spec is BAD.
I'm not trying to be a @#$%, but you're giving bad advise and it must stop. Some poor sucker might actually listen. Do you want that on your conscience?
This typifies your posts, bud. Scroll up to see more of the same. Just listen to yourself; you mock people more than actually giving advice, or adding to a thread by actually discussing something. You think it's your God-given right to tell people not to post anything and lay down the law that they are "BAD" and the ultimatum of "DONT POST". That's ok, it's totally up to you to come across like that, I just accept the fact that some people are like that on forums.
I happen to think that 4% more crit 100% of the time is better than R&T for leveling/grinding, but I think you fail to see the point since you're so sold on your own style of play. I for one think FB is a poor choice as a finisher for grinding. I'd rather have MSS and 4% crit, more combo points, more self healing, and more energy to do things with when grinding.
That's my play-style for grinding, you don't get it, so play with your Ferocious Bite and Shreds as much as you want, your way, but quit telling people to only think like you and not to listen to anyone that you don't agree with. It's more than poor social skills, it's flat out ignorance. The other people that have posted their builds have given you different reasons and motives for taking the talents that they do, and all you are suggesting is that they "do it your way". News flash: people have different things they want to be able to do with their characters other than what YOU want to do; accept it and you might actually be able to learn something.
Post by
Aadramelekh
razzem
, let the man be. He is right in what he says and for good reason. If spending 5 talent points to get 4% extra crit is better than 5 points for getting +20% to Maul and Shred and +50% crit on bleeding targets in your view, then I must advise to go and read some more theory and more than that, PRACTICE and you'll see why.
He is not the law regarding who and what to post, but he IS RIGHT nevertheless that your lvl 70 talent build is far from optimal under these terms. Getting the two shapeshifter talents instead of, say, 4 point Rend and Tear and Berserk is less effective even for grinding.
Grinding with a sequence like: Mangle + Rake until at least 3CP and then FB IS faster than the non stop mangle spamming. Even Pounce -> Mangle -> Shred is faster. If Shred crits, that mob will most probably be dead. and besides, when the target is stunned from Pounce, you are sure all your hits land. Frontal attacks might get you with misses and dodges/parries from active mobs.
people have different things they want to be able to do with their characters other than what YOU want to do
FAIL. The point was grinding so the actual goal in debate was the same. So 5 CP in RnT is better for grinding than 5CP for an extra 4% crit. Flat out. I agree with
foleynuts
here.
Post by
144872
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Post by
Nagol
Rend and Tear is an amazing talent. For bear threat and for cat dps. Obviously if you've done any raiding you know that your main damage comes from white hits, rip and shred. There should -always- be a bleed up, so 20% more shred dmg is just awesome. As for leveling and grinding, if you're one of those that likes to run around pouncing/shredding everything then this talent works well there too.
I think the point Razzem is trying to make is that he finds mangle spamming to be the most efficient way of grinding and leveling. That's why he's saying it's a waste to get a talent that doesn't affect mangle at all. Personally, I don't like to pounce/shred because I don't want to wait 10 seconds to go back into stealth when I could have already killed 2 mobs just by mangle spamming.
In the end, I think I'd pretty much always find a way to fit R&T into my build because it compliments both tanking and dps'ing.
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144872
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