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[In-depth Suggestions] Assassination tree
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Post by
203853
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
203853
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kicklucky
Overall, I have to say I'm impressed with the post as a whole. Its nice to see something that is intelligently compiled on these forums, and it was refreshing to read.
Improved Expose Armor
This ability was better off as it was, especially when raiding without a warrior tank. The increased armor penetration was much more useful than an increased duration. 30 seconds is plenty.
When they changed the talent to duration, they also changed the actual ability to essentially make it where all Expose Armor is Improved. Thus, this is a good thing, as it frees up 2 talent points that otherwise would be needed to increase the armor reduction.
Caustic Blades (3 point talent)
I like the idea, but I am not sure how the change to Find Weakness would play into this. I will have to read more about it, and I will update this when I am better informed.
A few of my own suggestions, I would like to see what you mentioned about the compilation of MoD and Camo, but a first tier talent for that seems a bit OP. The idea of an instant Energy Regeneration is interesting, and I was going to comment on it, until I read the one immediately after with a static increase to regen. Why not put them both together? It may need to be balanced a bit since its lower on the tree, but maybe 30 energy instead of 40, and 2 points to get it, allowing for a rank of 15 instant and 1 static, and then 30 instant and 2 static at rank 2.
Again, nice post. Would like to see more contribution from other people *Cough* KidB *Cough*
Post by
CoroHD
it suffers when it comes to sustained DPS due to the lower top-end damage of them.
Second sentence past the disclaimer and I already know its not worth reading.
Tell me, if you have a main hand weapon with a 1-1 weapon damage, and a weapon speed of 0.01, how does its DPS compare to a main hand weapon with 100-100 weapon damage and a weapon speed of 1.0?
Post by
drewidice
it suffers when it comes to sustained DPS due to the lower top-end damage of them.
Second sentence past the disclaimer and I already know its not worth reading.
Tell me, if you have a main hand weapon with a 1-1 weapon damage, and a weapon speed of 0.01, how does its DPS compare to a main hand weapon with 100-100 weapon damage and a weapon speed of 1.0?
It doesn't effect your white dps, it affects your Sinister Strikes greatly, wouldn't you agree? That is the point he is saying, if you weren't too ignorant to keep reading.
Edited in-
Very nice post, you guys spent some time developing this and it turned out good, you have several good points in it.
Post by
CoroHD
it suffers when it comes to sustained DPS due to the lower top-end damage of them.
Second sentence past the disclaimer and I already know its not worth reading.
Tell me, if you have a main hand weapon with a 1-1 weapon damage, and a weapon speed of 0.01, how does its DPS compare to a main hand weapon with 100-100 weapon damage and a weapon speed of 1.0?
It doesn't effect your white dps, it affects your Sinister Strikes greatly, wouldn't you agree? That is the point he is saying, if you weren't too ignorant to keep reading.
Edited in-
Very nice post, you guys spent some time developing this and it turned out good, you have several good points in it.
Lucky for mutilate and backstab builds, their yellow attacks have significantly higher coeffeicents to make up for that loss. Mutilate's is in the fact that you attack with both daggers, backstab's is in the fact that its 150% weapon damage and 255 additional damage. (both of those are before talents), compared to Sinister Strikes weapon dmg + 98 dmg.
He then goes on to try and make the point that armor pen is worth more to a mutilate build, when armor pen is the one stat that's value shouldn't change much from build to build (ignoring serrated blades).
He then uses the now tired argument that mutilate requires more skill because it had the positional requirement. Why is that argument retarded? Because one of the most important things involved in melee dps'ing is standing behind the boss regardless of what spec you are. Lets go over it: Where should you be attacking from in a Sinister Strike build? From behind. Where should you be attacking from in a Hemo build? From behind. Where do you need to be attacking from in a Mut build? From behind. Its all the same thing. The fact that you can get screwed out of DPS (compared to SS or hemo build) because of boss movement or turning (which bosses like supremus, gruul, archimonde, and a small army of others all do) is dumb, and thats why the positional req is going to be gone in Wrath. TL;DR Two equally skilled rogues, one combat and one mutilate, will both spend the same amount of time behind the boss, so it doesn't take any more "skill" to run mutilate in a PvE setting. You could make the argument that mutilate requires more skill in pvp, but mobility is king in the arena anyways, so shs will continue to be the dominant pvp spec in wrath (assuming no changes to shadowstep) and the point is moot.
The Fleet Footed "nerf" is something that Blizzard is applying to all stuns, snares, fears, etc to prevent the RNG from having such a noticeable effect so often in PvP. Instead of increased resistance to stuns, snares, fears, spell pushback and the like, all talents, abilities, and racials (in the case of orc's) are being converted from x% resistance to whatever to x% reduced duration of whatever.
His 1 talent point energy haste is almost as good as fully talented combat potency, and energy burst would be almost literally useless for PvE.
And this is all not to mention that Mutilate is looking to be the best PvE spec for rogues come wrath even without any of these suggestions.
As to the other things he mentions, I'm indifferent to the expose armor change as I only use it in pvp and having it be a longer duration means a higher sustained damage against classes like druids. Kick change is because kick is no longer on the GCD, and I would much rather trade 100 or so dmg for a non GCD dependant kick. Blizzard has already stated that as far as they are concerned mutilate is already proc dependent enough, so either of the two armor pen deadened nerves replacements go against what they want to do with the spec.
There. Am I still ignorant for not having read the entire thing?
Post by
kicklucky
Wall of text
My assumption is that 90% of what the OP is referring to and suggesting is PvP oriented. And the Kick reference is followed up by a ": ]" which basically reads to me as "I don't really care, I think its funny", so thats irrelevant. You are right that the positional requirement = skill arguement is tired, but there is more to the game that will be effected by the upcoming expansion than "222223222224222223222224222223222224"
The part where OP suggests a change to Fleet Footed is still relevant. You can't argue that in PvP, PvE, or otherwise, Mut builds are largely hindered by mobility. Thus, there should be some sort of talent change (addition) that frees us up beyond Fleet Footed as it stands, as its a bit lack luster. Simply calling the OP ignorant isn't very contributing to the topic title . Perhaps you'd like to add more to the subject.
Post by
CoroHD
Wall of text
My assumption is that 90% of what the OP is referring to and suggesting is PvP oriented. And the Kick reference is followed up by a ": ]" which basically reads to me as "I don't really care, I think its funny", so thats irrelevant. You are right that the positional requirement = skill arguement is tired, but there is more to the game that will be effected by the upcoming expansion than "222223222224222223222224222223222224"
The part where OP suggests a change to Fleet Footed is still relevant. You can't argue that in PvP, PvE, or otherwise, Mut builds are largely hindered by mobility. Thus, there should be some sort of talent change (addition) that frees us up beyond Fleet Footed as it stands, as its a bit lack luster. Simply calling the OP ignorant isn't very contributing to the topic title . Perhaps you'd like to add more to the subject.
Read his post.
...This would greatly help in making the Assassination tree more comparable to swords in both PvP and PvE...
...Much like Exploit Weakness, this ability will focus on improving sustainable DPS in both PvP and PvE...
...Assassination should sacrifice survivability for sustained DPS and burst damage....
He called the Fleet Footed talent nerfed, when in reality it was just changed to reflect the game wide changes to the RNG. Mut builds may be hindered by mobility, but so are Combat builds. This is the number one reason why SHS is the premier pvp spec for rogues (I mentioned that in my "wall of text").
And lastly, read my post. I never called anyone ignorant, I was responding to drewdice calling ME ignorant for pointing out (however well intentioned the OP may have been) that the OP's suggestions and criticisms are either flawed or are suggesting/criticizing something that blizzard is changing with good reason.
Post by
gonzodoc
I wont call you ignorant, just arrogent. You dismiss somone with reasonabe ideas (for the purposes of stimulating discussion) in your first post without reading the whole thing.
it suffers when it comes to sustained DPS due to the lower top-end damage of them.
Second sentence past the disclaimer and I already know its not worth reading.
Tell me, if you have a main hand weapon with a 1-1 weapon damage, and a weapon speed of 0.01, how does its DPS compare to a main hand weapon with 100-100 weapon damage and a weapon speed of 1.0?
The idea is so that people, like yourself, can post walls of text refuting/commenting/improving on the OP suggestions.
Post by
Skyfire
Don't post all-caps next time. I didn't lock it because I saw it as a well written thread.
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