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A question about Moonglow (Balance Druid talent)
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Post by
ironballs16
Due to the change with Starfire and other such spells becoming "x% base mana" in WotLK, how's that going to apply here? Will it become -9% base mana (in SF's case, 16%-9%=7%) in cost, or some weird math figure?
Simply put: is it better to get Dreamstate for mana regen, or Moonglow to reduce how much mana will be needed to regen?
Post by
NeoBlackheart
Both. Maybe a build like this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0xzruicsAdhquotZf0f0b
. This is stating that you are raiding and don't plan on geting hit.
Edit: Also its not -9% base mana its 9% off the mana it costs you say you have 100 mana it costs 16 mana it takes 9% off that 16 mana ending up costing you 15 mana. Not big with a small ammount but take that to 1000 mana and it goes to 146 mana instead of 160. So which is better do you have OMG int. if so then Dreamstate.
Post by
ironballs16
Both. Maybe a build like this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0xzruicsAdhquotZf0f0b
. This is stating that you are raiding and don't plan on geting hit.
Edit: Also its not -9% base mana its 9% off the mana it costs you say you have 100 mana it costs 16 mana it takes 9% off that 16 mana ending up costing you 15 mana. Not big with a small ammount but take that to 1000 mana and it goes to 146 mana instead of 160. So which is better do you have OMG int. if so then Dreamstate.
That 2nd part is what I was asking more about :P. I figured it'd be the "weird math" thing, but who knows, they might revamp some of those talents come next Balance review.
Oh, and you might want to tweak that tree a bit, since there's pretty much NO reason to go 5/5 in Earth & Moon, when 4/5 will work almost identically to the BM Hunter talent "Frenzy", in that 80% will be a high enough chance to keep it permanently on the mob, even if it might take a couple hits to do so.
I figure this build
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents2.html?tal=510022312503121521230501124100000000000000000000000000023020331200000000000000000
will be about the best overall for Raiding mana conservation... but like I said, they might alter some of the stuff (like Celestial Focus and Owlkin Frenzy) due to the changes in spell pushback.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Oh, and you might want to tweak that tree a bit, since there's pretty much NO reason to go 5/5 in Earth & Moon, when 4/5 will work almost identically to the BM Hunter talent "Frenzy", in that 80% will be a high enough chance to keep it permanently on the mob, even if it might take a couple hits to do so.You don't need to build a stack on the Frenzy thing, which makes the cost of letting the buff disappear much less painfull.
Also you are supposing that you can cast constantly which isn't necessarily the case. Having to move and then have your next SF not refresh the stack might get you in very hairy situations.
Post by
Abraxxes
Both. Maybe a build like this
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0xzruicsAdhquotZf0f0b
. This is stating that you are raiding and don't plan on geting hit.
Edit: Also its not -9% base mana its 9% off the mana it costs you say you have 100 mana it costs 16 mana it takes 9% off that 16 mana ending up costing you 15 mana. Not big with a small ammount but take that to 1000 mana and it goes to 146 mana instead of 160. So which is better do you have OMG int. if so then Dreamstate.
u do realize that base mana is the amount of mana w/o your gear so im just saying at lvl 70 a druids base mana is 2365 and if i costs 16% then that means its, im not doing that math haven't done it in a long time and im lazy just estimating here, 1000 mana would be 160 mana cost so 2000 is 320 and 500 is 80 so im guessing that 2365 is around 375 or somethign like it for each starfall at lvl 70 then u subtract the 9% off of that which is only ~ 45 mana off of the cost, so maybe u'd want dreamstate over moonglow ( u may be able to regenerate more than 45 mana in teh time it takes to cast a starfall with 1 point in dreamstate alone, this is just how i see this working
btw if your specing for pve then don't get owlkin frenzy at all, thats assuming your going to get hit and in pve you have a tank thats supposed to take all the damage instead of u, with that free talent i totally recommend Omen of Clarity it now works with spell casts and as feral, i can go and do anything, i love it, and miss it while im doing other specs
i also reccomend getting gale winds, due to tanking changes it seems like they'll be more multiple mob tanking, meaning more aoes, also reccommend imp FF, with it you'll barely need any HR to become hit capped along with every other person in your raid , here ill just show my moonkin build
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0xzruicoqdIVuRtZf0fzb
edit: i see ironballs16's build as more moonkin with mana regen over maximizing dps, and that nature's grasp used to help cc in pve only if the target breaks its current cc and u aggro it, but i wouldn't reccommend it since if your going to something where u need this much mana regen, a.k.a. a raid, then u should have some potions, food/mage food, elixirs etc.
Post by
182246
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
88567
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Abraxxes
I can't believe people are posting PvE WoLK builds without Intensity. Worse yet, posting WotLK with Master Shapeshifter/Omen and not Intensity.
To put into perspective the difference between Dreamstate and Intensity:
At 1,000 Int, Dreamstate gives 100 MP/5.
At 1,000 Int and 250 Spirit, Intensity gives 111 MP/5.
With closer ratios of Int/Spirit, Intensity becomes even better, and all of the WotLK gear seen so far has high Spirit on it.
1st this forum is on dreamstate and moonglow, this guy has already decided to use intensity or not
2ndly if u didnt bother to look i can't take points out of dreamstate in my build, wouldn't allow me to move up in the tree
3rd you don't need mana regen, unless your an idiot and came unprepaired for a raid/dungeon, you should have water/mage food for in between fights, potions during, coatings to your weapon, and elixirs
4th omen is a badass talent giving u a free spellcast u can use that to use one of your most costly offensive spells or better yet, throw up a tranguility/BR if the fight is looking a little rough
5th u spec with master shapeshifter to get the +4% spell damage which maximizes dps which is what u want as a dps class,
i never want to see caster dps stack mana regen, locks life tap, mages get the thing that returns 60% mana in 8 seconds( sad i can't remember this considering i used to have a 54 mage), boomkin now regenerate 2% mana( im guessing the proc rate is like LotP) every time they crit with a 6 second cooldown, also they have potions, etc. like i've explained, they could even use innervate on themselves if the healers aren't bad on mana if they wanted too
i play a druid now, as anything, wen i go boomkin or even restokin i don't have very much mana regen i never go oom on a boss or anything b/c im smart enough to do $%^& to make it so i don't,
Post by
Celdhyrean
1° The question was about Moonglow vs Dreamstate. All the rest is off-topic if you go that way, even though it's the OP himself who changed the direction towards global builds.
And nobody really answered that question actually... Since SF is 16% of base mana, an SF rotation totals a mana drain of 26.6% of base mana per 5s (which seems a good approximation since that's what we'll be casting the most). Moonglow would thus gain you around 2.5% of base mana per 5s. We don't have the druids base mana at level 80 yet but it's quite safe to consider that it'll be under 3k i think (currently 2370), meaning that Dreamstate will most certainly beat Moonglow before you reach 750 int, which shouldn't be too difficult.
ie moonglow better for levelling and Dreamstate better once you have gotten some level 80 gear and get buffed.
2° Actually you can take the one point out, thanks to the 3rd point in Brambles.
3° Currently, getting the mana regen talents doesn't cost you any dps talent. It's stupid to rely on food/oil when you could use dps food/oil/flask.
In WotLK:
you are limited to 1 potion per fight
higher cost of spells
Hunting Party, Judgment of the Wise, Vampiric Touch, Improved Water Elemental
mana on crit, OoC
Innervate Glyph
Let's be honest, we don't know yet which side will win and what the best tools will be. However you can easily do a build without any critical dps talent that has most of the mana regen tools, or at least the best ones.
4° and 5° I don't think i've seen Kaithbrian say that he wouldn't take MS and OoC. He just says that it's stupid to put points in balance mana regen tools but to not take Intensity if you've already made the initial investment in resto (ie the first 2 tiers) to get those since it's a better mana regen talent than anything you could get in the balance side.
On an unrelated note, Owlkin Frenzy procs on anything that hits you at the moment (it sometimes procs just by me jumping over something at the moment, though that's more likely a bug), the level of environmental damage in most boss fights could still make it an interresting PvE dps talent. I wouldn't include it in my end-PvE builds at the moment as i don't know enough about the coming boss encounters, but it's worth keeping an eye on it.
Post by
Abraxxes
i think i alrdy covered lots of wat u said in my original post on moonglow vs dreamstate maybe in a different view but yea, i alrdy knew about the 1 potion thing, just didn't feel like saying it, and the raid stuff is just another thing pointing towards needing less mana regen :P
actually if u do the math with how it is now the cost isn't that different/higher once u get gear and &*!@, if ur going naked then it'll feel like it costs of @#$% load but if u have any gear on its like none at all, i mean at 70 a starfire will be around 375 mana and as of right now its 370 so there isn't really a big change there, or with any other healing spell either, ive done the math on a ton of them, mainly rough estimations in my head but the ones i checked were only off by 5 mana tops so i stopped checking
one thing i didn't realize was owlkin frenzy which makes me now feel like a complete scrub, i thought it was a 10% reductoin to damage taken not increase to dmg dealt, now that i see this it seems like it would be viable in pve, mainly bosses that have aoe abilities over anything else but still viable
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