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Prot Warriors, a thing of the past?
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Post by
116855
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179410
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Post by
Sakkura
Oh I don't know, our survivability isn't improved much at all, but our threat generation is improved a heck of a lot, with some extra tools for especially 5-man tanking. Can't say exactly how it compares to the changes for the other tank classes, but it's definitely not bad changes for us. Just have to trust Blizzard to get the balance between the classes right.
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116855
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Post by
InfinityX
What worries me, is seeing shield block given such a cooldown that it makes becoming uncrushable an impossibility. Its one if the biggest mitigation tools warriors have. Its worries me where thats heading.
Crushing Blows will be either significantly reduced in severity or removed completely. Shield Block will become more about staving off big spikes of damage than an ability that needs to be spammed to avoid the threat of taking crushing blows.
Wowinsider
wrote a small article recounting an IRC chat with the developers on the topic.
After having gone over the new talents and abilities, and the changes in current abilities in the upcoming expansion. It would seem warriors are being forced more towards a dps role. This is very disappointing to me. I have been a hardcore prot warrior and love tanking as one. However, unless things change before Wotlk goes live, it would seem prot warriors will be a thing of the past come expac time. Considering the rather incredible buffs druids and pallies are getting for tanking, and the rather lack of warrior tanking abilities, it would seem pointless to be a warrior tank come Wotlk. Any feedback and other opinions on this would be welcome. Im wondering if anyone out there is seeing the same thing as me.
I'd like to see some exact examples of what you think is bringing about the "death" of Protection Warriors. Protection warriors have undergone many changes that I think you may have missed, based on the conclusions you're making here.
I'll name a some significant buffs to Protection that I can think of off the top of my head:
Strength now grants 1 block value per 2 points. Stronger blocks, stronger Shield Slams.
New multi-target spammable attack and dot,
Blood Bath
.
Improved Revenge
now increases
Revenge
damage by 25%.
Incite
is taking Defiance's place in the talent tree, greatly increasing the critical chance of often-used tanking abilities.
Last Stand
's cooldown is being reduced to 6 minutes.
Improved Disarm
now, in addition to reducing the cooldown, increases
all damage taken
by the target by 10%.
Improved Shield Bash
now increases the damage of Shield Slam in addition to its current effect.
Vigilance
is a new, amazing utility ability to help control problem aggro-pullers, especially in smaller instances.
Stalwart Protector
grants free rage for parrying and dodging.
Unique to Protection warriors is the new mechanic for
Critical Block
.
Sword and Board
grants more Shield Slams and even better damage output and rage efficiency than you could get from previous talents.
And as icing to the Protection talent cake,
Shockwave
tops the tree off with a cone-aoe heavy threat stun that lasts 4 seconds on a 20 second cooldown.
Heroic Strike
's bonus damage was increased by 50% across all ranks.
Mocking Blow
can now be used in Defensive Stance, and has a 1 minute cooldown now.
Thunder Clap
now scales much more powerfully with Attack Power.
Shield Bash
now deals damage directly based on Attack Power.
Sunder Armor
's threat scale with Attack Power.
Spell Reflection
's base rage cost was reduced to 15.
So tell me, where did Protection Warriors lose their viability?
Post by
Morguean
I personally see wrath as a "well damn... finally" alot of the threat from prot warriors came from our ability to get hit, or at least TAKE a hit.
but the problem we end up having there is that the better we take a hit, we lsoe the ability to get rage, which hurts our tanking ability..
BUT wrath is fixing those issues... so honestly, no, this isnt the end of prot warriors.... and personally anyone who says it is should be ashamed.
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33153
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Post by
Philmckraken
Crushing Blows = Sunny pulling up to a toll both.
Those who got that pat themselves on the back :D
Sonny,
not "Sunny."
Post by
185115
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Post by
Sakkura
I'm still hoping for some improvement to our survivability though. Else paladins might become the standard MT class.
Post by
Persen
I can't believe you're actually qqing this much. You've been the generally preferred main tanks since the release, and now when we finally get some improvements and the "thrash tank" stamp might be going away....
Geez
Post by
Kalken
Perhaps we aren't meant to be quite as tough as paladins. I always saw the three classes falling into their own styles.
Paladins focused more around defensive tanking (I know, kind of redundant sounding) what with their long range taunt, blessing of protection, and a lot of their threat comes from reflective holy damage like holy shield, ret aura, and blessing of sanc.
Warriors, the tank I play, I always slotted into the aggressive tanking slot. All but one of our main threat abilities is an instant global cooldown threatening smash to the face and the one melee-swing ability is a next-swing heroic smash to the face.
Druids I always saw as a supportive tank, not really meant to be the one that the Giant Raid Boss was beating on, but rather the one the Giant Raid Boss's Slightly Smaller Friend That Adds Halfway Through the Fight is beating on. They can deal decent damage in cat form while wearing tanking gear allowing them to switch roles mid fight as the situation demands, they don't use mana actively so they can throw an innervate on an oom dps or healer, and they can pop out for a quick battle rez.
You can see the difference in the three classes play style as well. Pally's have an 8 charge block, warriors have a 2 charge, druids have none. With the loss of the crushing blow Holy Shield will become an almost pure threat move, shield block (with the new CD) will become situational (Illidan's Shear for example), and Druids will remain big damage sponges but still susceptible to those encounters where blocking is essential to surviving a boss ability.
Basically from the looks of the beta so far, Warriors and Paladins will be the Main Tanks, shield-bearing classes with abilities so similar that they are interchangeable in fights but different enough that playing each is a completely different experience. Druids and Deathknights will be your Off-Tanks, both specializing in specific encounters where they will be nessessary (Druids with High Armor/Dodge, and DK's with their high Spell Damage mitigation). All 4 will be capable MT's in 5 and most 10 mans but more likely than not a Paladin or Warrior will be leading the charge in 25 man fights
PS, I hadnt heard about the STR Block Value change, holy crap shield slam is gonna hurt.
Post by
Sakkura
I can't believe you're actually qqing this much. You've been the generally preferred main tanks since the release, and now when we finally get some improvements and the "thrash tank" stamp might be going away....
Geez
Not a lot of QQ here really, except from the OP who didn't know crushing blows are being removed. If they had just increased the cooldown of shield block but not removed crushing blows, there would be plenty of reason for warriors to whine, because that would simply have been the end of prot warriors.
I see no reason not to wish for a few small improvements for prot warriors though. After all, even the blue poster on the beta forums said prot paladins might be surpassing prot warriors a little with their current build.
Post by
Sakkura
Oh, and I found
this
highly interesting thread on the beta forums. Shows that their design goals IMO are good, although very ambitious.
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