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Scarlet crusade in patch 8.0?
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Post by
Astendaw
Huhu everyone,
I was wondering, if Blizz would fix the scarlet reengadelore in 8.0, but I didn't watch the Blizzcon.
So my question is: Has Blizz talked about the scarlet cruade/ the scarlet renegades, because Lordaeron is now alliance territory.
Thank you to everyone who posted/ is going to post.
Post by
Adamsm
No.
Post by
PapaWizard
i hope they atleast talk about it
Post by
Adamsm
i hope they atleast talk about it
Why? They were wiped out in Cata.
Post by
Westorz
They get wiped out almost every expansion yet always seem to return.
The Alliance coming to retake Lordaeron would probably change some views of the remaining scraps of survivors of the Crusade on the Alliance, personally hoping to see some more become friendly so we can atleast get that sexy Crimson Legion tabard but doubt it.
Post by
Adamsm
This time we completely wiped them out; Undead destroy them utterly along side Lillian, we kill the majority of them in the Monastery and the Risen are what's left in the Plagueland. They were removed from the world and won't be back again. And you can get the tabard from the replacement for Herod.
Post by
morginar
Also, the scarlet crusade wouldn't join the alliance. Because they are quite disliking to anything not human. They are the spirit of a human grand marshal.
Citation the legends manga I think it's called. Quite good by the way.
It is more likely that Bolvar joins the horde than them the alliance.
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, both of the Legends manga stories about the Crusade show they are completely psychotic even for the living; any travelers they come across in the Plaguelands they kill on sight because they might be diseased, and they drove out all of the non-humans as unlcean.
Post by
RedSquirrel
This time we completely wiped them out; .
Not to put too fine a point on it, because I generally agree with the sentiment that you're expressing ... But:
That statement is completely wrong.
There's a specific lore line/fact that tells that the psychotic Scarlet Crusade were viewed as bad, and there were some "decent" Scarlets that escaped the Monastery. The
Scarlet Quartermaster
tells even more that they have "friends" who are willing to support them and they are out to "raise funds for our Order".
So, they're small scattered bands, in isolated pockets who are defeated, and without command or hierarchy or even contact, most likely.
But, they are *
very
* clear in saying, "We will not rest until the unliving have been driven from Azeroth!"
No, they're not a major force, or even an army by most definitions of the term.
But, they're not wiped out to the last man, and they are intent on continuing their mission.
Even if they don't update any new content in Battle for Azeroth, which I think unlikely, since -as has been pointed out - it's difficult to do Lordaeron without at least a *
tidbit
* about the Scarlet Crusade ... even if they don't, the last known information is that they were raising money (in *massive quantities* - tens of thousands of gold from each donor) to keep fighting their fight.
Post by
Adamsm
But...they were wiped out in Lordaeron; Voss kills a majority of them, we destroy the Monasteries and they are gone from W/EPL or reduced to Risen. Those who 'escaped' were the ones who disagreed with the ideal of the Crusade and joined the Argents.
Post by
RedSquirrel
Those who 'escaped' were the ones who disagreed with the ideal of the Crusade and joined the Argents.
Insofar as it goes, Adamsm, you're right. The W/EPL were essentially wiped out of the SC and the "majority" of them were killed.
However, the monasteries weren't "destroyed". Why would we assume that the monasteries are no longer standing? I don't really think that citing events from Cataclysm has any aaccuracy, when there's lore and canon since then about the SC.
And More specifically, in 2014, during Warlords of Draenor, it was stated by Chris Metzen (
on Twitter
) that there were a handful of Scarlets who'd gone into hiding. Not joined the Argents, or anything else. In hiding. Which is why I mentioned the The
Scarlet Quartermaster
who was eventually added in 2016, in Legion.
Post by
morginar
that quatermaster doesn't say anything as far as lore goes, just that blizzard wanted to use the mogs (mostly the tabard) as a reward for the event.
And that tweet confirms that the organisation is dead.
I'm surprised that the priest isn't mentioned, there is a scarlet onslaught that joins, of course rejecting all things scarlet upon joining (she was to be hanged a heretic for a reason). Though it confirms that the northrend base is still up, and isolated and loco.
And Adamsm is not just citing events from cata. There is the MoP where the monastery is entered by Voss and kills a whole bunch of scarlets. Legion has the death knight walk in there, and kill the rest, exterminating the remains of the faction and it's leader animated into a death knight.
The scarlet renegade faction, the quest giver for the alliance side monastery. Is never referenced again. But the horde version is, the Dark Ranger leading that is seen in WoD and Legion. Suggesting that the horde side is cannon, alliance side, is not and was only there for gameplay.
Post by
Adamsm
Yup, between Voss and the Death Knights, the Monastery was leveled and there's nothing left. Even the quartermaster isn't actually canonical, since he's at the Faire and there for fun.
Post by
RedSquirrel
that quatermaster doesn't say anything as far as lore goes That is absolutely untrue.
Why would you think it's
not
lore? ... it's there, and the Quartermaster establishes canon. Just because you don't like it, or it's at the Faire doesn't mean it's not lore. The entire Darkmoon Faire is in lore. Unless you're going to say that Kerri Hicks wasn't framed for murder there? Or that Martha Weller's ghost isn't there?
And that tweet confirms that the organisation is dead. No it doesn't. That's not even what
the tweet from Chris Metzen
says. It confirms that "their power is broken for now". and that "there's a handful out there in hiding". And, literally, the quartermaster is in hiding at the Faire.
That's exactly what it says. There's nothing about the organization being "dead". "Dead" and "broken" are massively, entirely different things. e.g. - If your bones are broken, you're not dead. Even if it's your spine - that doesn't mean you're dead.
And I don't even know where Adamsm is getting that the Faire is only "there for fun". It's absolutely canonical.
And Adamsm is not just citing events from cata.Um, yes, he is ... literally.
Upthread
he writes, "They were wiped out in Cata." That's pretty much self-explanatory. If either of you are bringing other facts in after what he said, that's cool and there's nothing wrong with that - in fact, we'll talk about those points in a sec, ... but, Adamsm was absolutely citing Cata when he said it.
-
No one's saying that Lillian Voss doesn't attack the Crusade, or doesn't want them eradicated. No one's saying that they haven't been decimated.
Also, no one is saying the DKs didn't attack the monastery. Sally Whitemane is one of the Horsemen. No one is claiming otherwise. All of those things happened, and all contributed to the Scarlet Monastery being in the state they're in. Crushed. Defeated. Without power or resources.
The scarlet renegade faction, the quest giver for the alliance side monastery. Is never referenced again. But the horde version is, the Dark Ranger leading that is seen in WoD and Legion. Suggesting that the horde side is cannon, alliance side, is not and was only there for gameplay.Again, no one is saying that Dark Ranger Velonara didn't do those things. Her presence as a questgiver, in Spires of Arak, as a Garrison follower, and in Trueshot Lodge doesn't detract from the fact that Joseph the Awakened led the Scarlet Renegades. The Scarlet Renegades were a part of the SC history. They had to retreat when Joseph went bonkers, and (as you said) have never been heard from again.
But, whether Horde or Alliance, both quest lines are canon. You can't say that they didn't happen or don't exist.
...the Monastery was leveled and there's nothing left. Please tell me you have some idea where you're getting this, because I've never heard it, and there's nothing whatsoever anywhere that indicates this. Not even the DK Order Hall in Legion states this. It seems nothing more than your own inaccurate speculation.
Post by
Rankkor
The scarlet crusade is much like the twilight hammer, in that every time you think you've wiped them out, they somehow manage to always come back.
We "wiped out" the crusade during the DK starting zone (and later finished them off in northrend), but they came back in cataclysm.
We "Wiped them out" again in cata, razing their remnants in Tyr's Hand and stratholme, and yet they came back in MoP.
We "wiped them out" again in MoP, this time killing for good Whitemane, and purging the monastery of anything that lived, and since there was no sign of them in WoD, it seemed they were finally gone.............. and then they came back in Legion.
We "wiped them out" again in Legion when procuring Whitemane's body, but honestly, they've come back so many times, I highly doubt we've seen the last of them.
They're like roaches. No matter how many of them you stomp out, more will come out of the woodwork when you least expect it.
Post by
Adamsm
I think they'll be gone this time; they have no base of power any more. The Monastery was destroyed, 'live' Strath had all of the Crusaders there turned into Risen, Tyr's Hand also came down with a bad case of the Risen and we made certain to destroy those nests, the Onslaught was eradicated so it's not like they could come back anywhere.
To be honest, there is no reason for them to come back; all they are are the KKK of the Warcraft world, here to kill anyone who isn't human and also kill off those who are even thought to be a little bit infected.
Post by
Rankkor
I think they'll be gone this time; they have no base of power any more.
That's what we've said every single time we've killed them. Including the FOUR times we've assaulted the Monastery (once in vanilla, once in cata, once in MoP, and now again in Legion). They still manage to come back.
The Monastery was destroyed
Got a source for that? because other than an NPC
SAYING
that he
wants
to do this, we don't actually..... you know..... do it. We assault the place, we kill everyone, then we leave. No different than the other 3 times we did it before. It didn't stop them from coming back before, why should it stop them now?
To be honest, there is no reason for them to come back; all they are are the KKK of the Warcraft world, here to kill anyone who isn't human and also kill off those who are even thought to be a little bit infected.
And racism is not exactly something that's on short supply among the humans, so they still have a source of new recruits to bolster up their numbers. Just as every race has their share of nutjobs which is why the twilight hammer continues to rebuild, no matter how many times we hammer them down.
Its meant to be an analogue to how in real life, no matter how hard we try to stomp them down, neo-nazis will always be there in every country. They're a plague that can't be cleansed.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Atik
Its meant to be an analogue to how in real life, no matter how hard we try to stomp them down, neo-nazis will always be there in every country. They're a plague that can't be cleansed.
Sort of ironic when put that way.
Post by
Rankkor
Its meant to be an analogue to how in real life, no matter how hard we try to stomp them down, neo-nazis will always be there in every country. They're a plague that can't be cleansed.
Sort of ironic when put that way.
I know, I couldn't think of a more appropriate analogy >_> kinda tired tonight.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I think they're done for good. Whitemane was the last legacy character the Crusade could rally around. No one knows any of the leadership anymore. They don't have any brand power outside of the Crusade itself. They survived the death of Renault only because Whitemane could replace him. Every other vanilla boss is gone but her, and she was the final boss in the dungeons. She was the lynchpin for the lore of them, and with her joining the death knights there's no name to give them any weight.
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