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Emerald, Sapphire, and Bronze (?) Sanctums
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Post by
tsukasadt
I'm curious if anyone else would be interested in seeing these added to the game. Blizzard gave us
The Ruby Sanctum
and
The Obsidian Sanctum
in WotLK, and while there are gateways to the sanctums of the other three dragonflights, we've never seen them. Frankly, besides the gateways, I can't recall them ever having been mentioned anywhere in the lore, but it stands to reason they exist.
This should go without saying, but:
LORE SPOILERS!
Alright, so
Korialstrasz
destroyed them to prevent
Neltharion
from raising an army of Chromatic Drakes. This wouldn't be the first time Blizzard has messed with the timeline to throw in content. Alternatively, it could be released in the proper timeline as part of an attempt to rebuild the dragonflights. Let's face it, they've all kinda been messed up:
Neltharion
all but wiped out the blue flight when he betrayed the other aspects (only slightly offset by the preservation of a clutch by
Korialstrasz
)
Malygos
ran the blues into the dirt and half the flight was slaughtered when he sought to control all magic
Alexstrasza
was enslaved and many of her children were hunted down and killed during the Second War
a not insignificant amount of the greens were lost to the
The Emerald Nightmare
and
Ysera
is slain (I'm still pissed at Blizzard for this)
Nozdormu
went mad and, essentially, tried to wipe out his own flight by creating the Infinite Dragonflight
and we all know how
Neltharion
, Sintharia,
Nefarian
, and
Onyxia
ruined the blacks
Sure, there are no longer "aspects" (another bone I still haven't forgiven Blizzard for ), but the dragons still exist and there's no reason why they can't rebuild their society! We've already seen that the former aspects are open to staying in touch and to working towards a better future for all of Azeroth (Dawn of the Aspects series).
With that in mind, I'm thinking that the sanctums could be revisited as a 5-part instance of clearing out the remnants of the the chromatic experiments,
or even some ridiculous corruption caused by the spell
Korialstrasz
used to destroy the clutches protected within. Maybe turn into a full story arc with phasing zones to reflect the progression of their restoration.
Wouldn't having the dragonflights back at full strength be great for when the Old Gods step in to finish what they started when they corrupted
Sargeras
?
Unless Blizzard throws us an insane curveball and ends Legion with the fall of Azeroth and the destruction of the Army of Light, effectively ending the Warcraft franchise, we can expect more lore beyond the fall of
Sargeras
. I, for one, would love to see a resurgence of the dragonflights and them playing a much larger role in an expansions storyline (not like Cataclysm, where they just got b/sed).
Post by
Nulgar
They could be locations for the story books, or maybe for a flashback-esque scene in WoW, but I can't see them as additional instance content.
The Obsidian Sanctum was attacked by us because reasons unclear, Wyrmrest is a sanctuary to dragons, the Black Flight even had a representative on top.
The Ruby Sanctum was attacked by a faction of the Black Flight as part of the events leading up to the Cataclysm.
Why would we go to the other sanctums in a martial manner?
And on this side of the Fourth Wall, how would this be perveived? As a carbon copy of the Ruby Sanctum raid?
"Being attacked by this expansions' baddies, send help. Signed, the good dragons"
Post by
tsukasadt
I kinda covered that in my original post, though as part of the spoiler due to the high value of lore weaved into it. I was thinking it could be a flashback type of instance content with the intent of helping the dragonflights to rebuild. The concept is part throwback to the earlier expansion and part progression of the "future" story.
As for the idea of it being an instance, well, maybe that's a bit excessive. Maybe, instead, simply make it part of the story. Obviously it would need to be tied into the events of the game at that time, but it would open the doorway to a powerful ally against the forces of the Old Gods, or the next big baddy around the corner.
Throughout the lore, the dragons have involved themselves through disguise. In the lore directly relating the to game, they've had some major roles, but they've never been given a solidified front as equals among the modern races of Azeroth. They've played many major roles, certainly, but as a society they were always portrayed at a distance with little involvement. This would give the dragons a chance to establish an upfront place with the races of Azeroth, rather from the shadows or afar.
Heck, maybe there's a potential for a third playable faction? I doubt it, but I think it'd be a great way story arc to introduce the dragonflights as a playable faction. The players would be the newborn drakes learning their way in the world, eventually becoming great dragons.
The point of the thread was to get a feel for whether I was the only one remotely interested in seeing the remaining three sanctums introduced to the game in some form.
Post by
Adamsm
Obsidian is where the Twilight flight eggs were hidden; that's why Sarth and the three were there.
All of the others were destroyed and since as of Dragon Soul all dragons are now sterile, and Wyrmrest has been abandoned, they aren't anything anymore.
Post by
tsukasadt
I admit, I forgot about the one-time reference that they can no longer bear eggs:
The Last of the Last
. However, I haven't forgotten
Velen's prophecy that had dragons fighting the Burning Legion
.
Dragons swooped and soared in formations that made the sky resemble a giant multicolored, reptilian wing. They blanketed the horizon with their physical size and numbers, and when they roared a challenge, it shook not just the earth Velen stood on, but the universe as well.
Dragons are big, sure, but given the devastation to the flights, it's hard to believe that they would be capable of blanketing the horizon as they are. This leave it wide open for the opportunity to "fix" the problem and rebuild the flights. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch considering that the dragons wouldn't've been had it not been for the interference of Tyr. The aspects would've lived their lives and died, never giving rise to the dragons, instead remaining proto-dragons. Why can't further interference change a few things?
We've already seen Blizzard through in the mythical beings of lore with tangible results. The fall of Ysera is evidence enough of that. Others like Elune are present in the Warcraft universe, and there's nothing that has definitively stated that the Titans had successfully awoken all the world spirits in the Twisting Nether. There could easily be more that come along just in time to save the loyal protectors of the Titan's will.
As for Wyrmrest being abandoned, it should also be considered that, in their own way, all the remaining former aspects agreed to pursue a future for themselves reflective of who they are, of who Tyr reminded them they were (Dawn of the Aspects Part 5). They all agreed in their own manner that there was still more they could contribute to the future of Azeroth. That Wyrmrest was abandoned should really mean little if you consider the potential for resurrecting draconian society.
Post by
Adamsm
One time reference? It's stated multiple times in the most recent lore books that the current dragons are it; once they are gone from the world, that's it except for the Proto, Cloud Serpent and Netherwing dragons. While those species all have intelligence, they won't have the same power of the Flights. The Flights themselves also don't have their powers anymore; that's why there are suddenly Timewalkers guarding the Pathways of Time, the Druids have taken over complete custodianship of the Dream, and the mages of Dalaran keeping watch over magic.
While they agreed to do things in Azeroth, they also said the time of Wyrmrest was done and it was time to not stay hidden away...and again, since they can't have children, there is no point to the Sanctums, especially since the powers that were in the Flights are gone as well.
Also, as seen with the newest Chronicle book, the current lore stories can be reduced to non-canon, including the Leader stories; Rise of the Horde is no longer canon as apparently pre-First War Draenor is a mix of what you saw in Warlords and some things from Rise such as Gul'dan being from another clan instead of the Shadowmoon, the Dark Star existed and other things.
Post by
tsukasadt
What recent books? The last book I remember hearing about was Illidan, which is sitting on my shelf after my last reading. Please don't misunderstand, I appreciate your providing me with the revised lore, I love it, but I wasn't aware that there had been any other mentions of the sterility.
As for the retconning of some of the novels, I hadn't heard anything about that, though I can't say I've been able to keep up the last few years. Work's been busy. ^^' It's very disappointing to hear about the retconning, though. It's Star Wars and Star Trek all over again. :(
As for the original topic of the thread, I understand there are lore conflicts that need to be worked out. The main focus was to see if anyone would be interested in seeing the sanctums brought into the game in some form (assuming lore conflicts can be worked out). For me, the sanctums have always been an area of the dragon lore that I wanted explored more.
I guess I just don't like the thought that I may the only one interested in it. ^^'
Post by
Adamsm
Tides of War, Dawn of the Aspects and War Crimes all mentioned that the dragons are sterile now and that's it for them, and of course the quests introducing the Timewalkers on the Timeless Isle stated it as well when they were explaining about the loss of powers.
I guess I just don't get the interest; all the Sanctums were used for was storing eggs...which after what happened in Twilight of the Aspects was a silly thing anyways. But over all, since all they are is a massive one room cavern, there isn't much that could be done with them.
Post by
tsukasadt
Okay, I found the reference in Dawn of the Aspects, but not in TIdes of War. I'll have to reread it keeping an eye open for it.
As for my interest in the sanctums, I guess it's more about what they represent that makes me want to see them implemented: the future.
Alright, while I'd still like to know if anyone else is interested in seeing the other sanctums manifested in-game, how do you think Blizzard will deal with Velen's Prophecy? It's part of the lore posted to the official story section of the Warcraft website. Sure, they could retcon it, but haven't they been retconning the books to make those stories the canon?
Post by
Adamsm
So far the only Lore story reference may have been when Velen told the chief of security in the Exodar to ready it to move, which we know the city was fixed in Velen's story, however, his prophecy hasn't really been referenced since. The Army of Light has still been mentioned, but since we seem to be winning in Legion, and one of the visions that Velen had showed an old man Anduin preparing for the final fight against Burning Legion, more then likely the visions change which happened to Velen on Draenor as the war against the Orcs progressed.
The time of the Flights is over though; we are now in the Age of Mortals and we no longer require the Dragons to watch over us. As for Tides; it's mentioned in those god awful conversations between Kalec and Ary before all of the Blues split up due their time being over. After all; in Legion we've seen one small group of Blues helping us and we haven't seen hide or tail of our favourite Black Prince since Mists and if the Dragons were going to be playing a big role, you'd think Wrath would have his claws into everything try to help.
Post by
tsukasadt
Well, Wrathion did make an appearance in Draenor, though very minor. I personally never cared for his personality; it always seemed a bit...strong?
As for the prophecy and our winning in Legion, I was thinking of Legion is being the modern day equivalent of the War of the Ancients. I could see it being the trigger for Azerothians to spread out into the Twisting Nether explicitly to push the Legion back to demon worlds where they can actually be killed. And it is stated that Velen cannot determine if it is Azeroth or another world that he sees in the vision, leaving it wide open to be so. Further, it is also not identified that the man he saw was Anduin, or that he was old, only that instead of the image of the prince that triggered the vision he saw
an armed warrior
.
And as soon as Anduin came into view, the world
changed
.
Instead of the prince, an armored warrior stood before him, his plate helm and breastplate shining with the essence of the Light itself.
Then there is the whole mess of changing visions. Yeah, I ain't touching that with a ten-foot pole. xD
I did search the Tides of War for mentions of "child", "egg", and "bear", but none were with regards to the inability of dragons to have children. So, it's the next book on my list to read after I finish my current one. ^^'
Post by
Adamsm
Well, Wrathion did make an appearance in Draenor, though very minor. I personally never cared for his personality; it always seemed a bit...strong?I know; he was mentioned in the journal of Admiral Taylor...and that seemed silly since if Wrath was on Draenor, he would have been doing more behind the scenes, popping up everywhere since he learned from Mists what not to do.
Post by
tsukasadt
Little known appearance of
Wrathion
in WoD is that he was also present when you turned in
Tome of Chaos
for
Cooking the Books
to
Cordana Felsong
. He was in whelping form just outside the tower, sometimes sitting on a Kirin Tor banner, sometimes flying about. :)
Post by
Adamsm
Never did that quest, so never saw him there.
Post by
tsukasadt
Ah, well, it was nothing more than a cameo appearance hinting that while Wrathion wouldn't be directly involved in the events of WoD, he was watching.
Post by
Adamsm
Which goes against the character sadly; he was the one making the moves behind the scenes all through Pandaria, and was the one who helped to break Garrosh out in an attempt to see what would occur...so where was he on Draenor to see what happened due to that? And again in Legion, when other then Stormheim, the Alliance and Horde are actually working together like he wanted before; he should be there in the thick of it doing things to help keep them united.
See this is what I want to see; Wrath doing things over going back to relics like the Sanctums, since with no dragon eggs, they don't have a point.
Post by
tsukasadt
That actually is a good purpose for the sanctums in modern lore. With Wyrmrest abandoned and the dragonflights sterile, they do serve no current purpose, except as one of the fewest and most secure locations in all of Azeroth that Wrathion could setup and work from the shadows.
Post by
Adamsm
Well...as secure as a tower in the middle of an ice field, surrounded by hostile fauna, has already been infiltrated multiple times and was ravaged by the Old Gods is.
He should just take up residence somewhere in Pandaria, as there are a large number of places to hide there. Or the Broken Isles, or go back to Outland to work with his Netherwing cousins or something at least.
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