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Howl of Terror
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Post by
Temes
I'm not a noob, but I still find myself asking this noob question. And the question is:
Does Howl of Terror share Diminishing Returns with Fear?
Post by
GenXCub
Yes. It's Death Coil that doesn't affect the fear DR.
Post by
Gnostik
Just as an aside, note that the Succubus' Seduction spell is also on the same DR timer as Fear and HoT.
Post by
Kobrakai
Just as an aside, note that the Succubus' Seduction spell is also on the same DR timer as Fear and HoT.
And this should be removed imo given the fact that Fear has been nerfed into the ground since the past.
Post by
Dunsinane
No, that would be imbalancing in PvP. The effect of diminishing returns is gone after 15 seconds, and the warlock would be able to keep someone controlled indefinitely so long as he was careful with his dots.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kaitain
No, that would be imbalancing in PvP. The effect of diminishing returns is gone after 15 seconds, and the warlock would be able to keep someone controlled indefinitely so long as he was careful with his dots.
Well, druids can cyclone and root melee players on 2 separate DR timers. And yeah if you do it well and move well you can control someone almost indefinitely. It does take some skill though, so never seemed that imbalanced to me. Succubusses die so easily so the way out is just zerg the pet in about 3 seconds, problem solved.
Post by
91244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dunsinane
No, that would be imbalancing in PvP. The effect of diminishing returns is gone after 15 seconds, and the warlock would be able to keep someone controlled indefinitely so long as he was careful with his dots.
Well, druids can cyclone and root melee players on 2 separate DR timers. And yeah if you do it well and move well you can control someone almost indefinitely. It does take some skill though, so never seemed that imbalanced to me. Succubusses die so easily so the way out is just zerg the pet in about 3 seconds, problem solved.
The analogy isn't analogous.
There are important distinctions here. We can do significant damage to someone while they're in fear through dots and a couple of well-timed shadow bolts. The druid's ability to keep you controlled doesn't come with such a benefit. In fact, you're immune to damage while in cyclone. Any ranged class can still fight back while in roots while they cannot under our CC.
Comparing a druid's CC to ours and asserting that the one should be under the same restrictions as the other simply doesn't work.
Post by
Celdhyrean
Also cyclone is only for 10s and requires 4.5s of GCD from the druid. (and shares the blind DR)
Post by
Kaitain
Well, druids can cyclone and root melee players on 2 separate DR timers. And yeah if you do it well and move well you can control someone almost indefinitely. It does take some skill though, so never seemed that imbalanced to me. Succubusses die so easily so the way out is just zerg the pet in about 3 seconds, problem solved.
The analogy isn't analogous.
There are important distinctions here. We can do significant damage to someone while they're in fear through dots and a couple of well-timed shadow bolts. The druid's ability to keep you controlled doesn't come with such a benefit. In fact, you're immune to damage while in cyclone. Any ranged class can still fight back while in roots while they cannot under our CC.
Comparing a druid's CC to ours and asserting that the one should be under the same restrictions as the other simply doesn't work.
Ok, it was a bad analogy. The point was that several other classes, not just druids, can chain together CCs skillfully to great effect, but locks cannot.
I don't know of any 10-15 second DoTs, therefore i don't see how you could do significant damage to a player while effictively Fearing then Seducing, then repeating indefinitely, no matter how 'careful' you were with your DoTs. It just wouldn't work.
Post by
Gnostik
And this should be removed imo given the fact that Fear has been nerfed into the ground since the past.
Seduction is due for a buff in WLK. The talent Imp Succubus will now increase the chance the Succubus has to avoid interruption caused by damage while Seducing somebody, instead of its current effects.
This one still makes no sense to me. Interruption from damage has never been an issue with using Seduce. The only issues are that the Succubus might be kicked/counterspelled/etc or, the more likely scenario, killed in 3 seconds flat.
Post by
Dunsinane
Well, druids can cyclone and root melee players on 2 separate DR timers. And yeah if you do it well and move well you can control someone almost indefinitely. It does take some skill though, so never seemed that imbalanced to me. Succubusses die so easily so the way out is just zerg the pet in about 3 seconds, problem solved.
The analogy isn't analogous.
There are important distinctions here. We can do significant damage to someone while they're in fear through dots and a couple of well-timed shadow bolts. The druid's ability to keep you controlled doesn't come with such a benefit. In fact, you're immune to damage while in cyclone. Any ranged class can still fight back while in roots while they cannot under our CC.
Comparing a druid's CC to ours and asserting that the one should be under the same restrictions as the other simply doesn't work.
Ok, it was a bad analogy. The point was that several other classes, not just druids, can chain together CCs skillfully to great effect, but locks cannot.
I don't know of any 10-15 second DoTs, therefore i don't see how you could do significant damage to a player while effictively Fearing then Seducing, then repeating indefinitely, no matter how 'careful' you were with your DoTs. It just wouldn't work.
Mutter mutter... write out a response and for some reason Wowhead sends me back to the login page rather than posting.
Immolate = 15 seconds
Corruption and Unstable Affliction = 18 seconds
Weaving those three into a fear/seduction chain should be no trouble, especially with Death Coil to fall back on. The first application should run in its entirety before the enemy has a chance to react simply by beginning with seduction to hold him in place while you apply your dots, and he'll only have a second or two in the gaps AFTER the second set has burned him down.
And again, how other classes function is NOT how warlocks function. Comparing our CC to theirs is a meaningless effort. A rogue's stunlock ability is an entirely separate issue.
Post by
Kaitain
I didn't count Immolate because immolating feared targets is more often than not a recipe for failure. Even if it didn't 3 DoTs ticking and you are lucky to see the fear run maximum length.
I still don't think what you are suggesting is feasible against a player who is not afk. And certainly not against one who has team mates. A 2 second gap is way too long. Half the CC is easily killable. Succubus use in arena is a joke. It would never be a good tactic against anyone with ability, and therefore imo would not be even close to being OP to have separate DR timers. It was a simple point that is getting extremely drawn out.
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