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But... flying mounts should fly :'(
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Post by
Rankkor
I'm gonna take this brief moment to steer the thread back on topic. It has deviated a lot from its original point (Flying mounts being able to fly) to offtopic and discussions over whether or not lengthy responses are rude or not. Regrettably I had a part in it, but nonetheless, it needs to stop, so I'm halting it.
It ends now.
Next post will be on topic now. Discussions over the pro's and con's of flight in the game.
But Rankkor, surely you must admit two things:
1) Prior expansions had zones where players were expected to level before they got flying. And those zones were designed around flatter terrain. There might not have been a clear path to everywhere, but there were very few difficult paths.
True, but then again, at least from my own experiences, the only zone with the ridiculous terrain is Gorgrond, because Talador is mostly flat, as was shadowmoon, nagrand, frostfire, and most of arak (Except for that huge mountain in the middle)
I can concede that they could had done a much better job at terrain paths. Sometimes they get truly on my nerves.
2) With the speed of leveling through WoD, a character will either overstay their leveling in a zone (resulting in most of the gear being obsolete by the time you get to them) or they'll outlevel a zone and go onto the next zone early (resulting in most of the gear being skipped, again making them obsolte by the time you get to them).
Blizzard made leveling so fast, people would be skipping entire zones if not for the few followers they can pick up in each zone.
This is true, though I'm not sure how exactly is it relevant. Nonetheless, I'll continue reading.
For the other content, we have:
1) Garrison resource caches. Eventually, people get more from follower missions and garrison buildings (either the lumber mill or the trading post) that they're just not worth it. (I have four Scavengers, maybe five, on my main, for instance.)
2) Toys and battle pets. These are generally only needed once, per account.
3) Gear (both caches and rare mobs). Like I said above, most of this is going to be obsolete by the time you get to them. So it's just vendor gold or (if you have access to a disenchanter) draenic dust/shards.
(Is there a 4th category?)
All stuff that's pretty much pointless by the time you're a level 100 sporting iLvl 615 gear, especially if you're on your second character running through it. Or your third.
So it's not the various puzzle games that are the reason for the flying ban. And the questing in the zones isn't the reason (because, like I said, your main is going to easily hit 100 before getting through Spires of Arak; and those alts that have been accumulating rested-XP bonuses are probably going to hit 100 before they finish Talador or early Spires of Arak at the latest).
Ahh, I see your point. Well, regardless of all of the above, once you are at lvl 100 on draenor, you still have to travel around the planet a lot. Be it to do the Apexis Daily, or do the stables daily, or do gathering, or fishing dailies, or rep grinds etc. We still have reasons to travel around the world, and when we do travel, if we do so by air, we are still completely safe.
They wanted to covey the aura of danger lurking on every corner on draenor, and for that to happen, travel needs to be dangerous. Even at lvl 100 on ilvl 630, you can still die if certain mobs get to you, so the world is still dangerous, so it still makes sense to not have flight.
However, sooner or later, every single average joe will be ilvl 690 a few tiers later, and by that point, mobs wont be a danger, they'll be a nuisance at best that we kill in a single hit. At that point, I'd say it doesn't make much sense to keep flying off, because the world is not dangerous anyways.
A compromise they could be doing, is to completely stack every single monster camp with AA defenses, so that when we have to go there for whatever reason (Be it quests, farming, etc) even while in the air, we are still in danger. For example, in Wrath of the Lich King, on the DK starting zone, that last mission involving killing 100 crusaders with the wyrm, you couldn't stay still for more than a second, because hundreds of arrows would fly at your face every second.
Forcing a dismounting mechanism for extreme altitudes, and heavy anti-air fire at lower altitudes, but only on enemy bases, the rest of the planet being safe to fly on, would probably be a good compromise. We'll see how blizzard approaches this in later patches.
Post by
335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
hehehehe, there was one incredibly annoying jumping puzzle that was actually a very clever troll by blizzard. I would had missed it if I could just fly there.
Its in frostfire ridge, on a Thunderlord Village.
I notice how there are these spears stuck on a ledge, forming a primitive ladder, and at the top of it, a treasure chest. So I figure: its a jumping puzzle, I must jump carefully from spear to spear until I reach the top.
I spent over 20 minutes trying to do it, only to fail over and over. Frustrated, I was about to quit when I moused over the chest from afar, and noticed its name "Crag-leaper's Cache". I had an eureka moment, and looked around me, I was surrounded by tall canyons. And immediately went "derp, I could I not see this before?"
I stopped trying to climb the rudimentary stair of spears, instead rode to the top of the crag overlooking the village, and jumped from the top of the crag, and landed right on the treasure. The stair of spears was just red herring to distract us from the real solution to the puzzle. Which is to jump from the crag, to get the Crag Jumper Cache.
The reward of the chest was just the icing on the cake:
Crag-Leaping Boots
Ohhh you sneaky blizzard, you. Some dev must have been laughing his butt off when making that puzzle.
This is one of many nice moments that would be completely missed on a world where I can just fly to the top and skip everything. So yeah, I'm all for no flight
for the moment.
Not forever. If they announce no flight forever, that is gonna upset me. But not having it for a while, is good. IMO of course.
Post by
335450
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Personally, I think the only reason flight has not been enabled is to allow them more time to work on Tanan Jungle.
Possibly. But since we can peer into Tanaan with farsight/eagle-eye anyways, its a moot point. And we can't cross over there with the few items in WoD that grant limited flight due to an invisible wall blocking the way in every direction.
Once the jungle opens, and you can't see your objective from the sky, flight will become trivial in that zone. Also, the original zones will be outdated, and can afford to now have flight unlocked after what is sure to be almost 8-9 months after the launch.
Yep, permanent flight removal would suck, but I'm okay with a delayed flight unlocking. Even if said unlocking doesn't involve any sort of grandiose quest and its just a switch flip.
They better not make us pay a hefty sum of gold for it though >_> having to pay 5k gold for a lvl 3 garrison on each alt is enough of a gold sink.
Post by
proterus
They better not make us pay a hefty sum of gold for it though >_>
That's just wishful thinking.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
They better not make us pay a hefty sum of gold for it though >_> having to pay 5k gold for a lvl 3 garrison on each alt is enough of a gold sink.
At this point, I would do a quest chain loaded with PVP (which I despise) and pay 500k
For heaven's sake man O_O don't tempt them, they could hear you, and then do just that when they do decide to unlock flight.
This tethered to the ground stuff needs to end.
It will end, they never said flight is gone for good, its just gonna be delayed.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Whatever it takes to actually get them to listen.
They
have
listened. I think you're confusing the word "listen" to "obey". They have heard the feedback of both sides of the fence on this situation, but ultimately, they're the ones calling the shots, not the players. For good or ill, they're the ones making the calls, and if you seriously think copy&pasting an opinion over and over will get them to basically obey every whim of the fanbase, you'll be sorely disappointed.
Since its inception, there's been endless threads calling out for the removal of LFR. Since the results of Azeroth Chopper went live, countless complaints were lodged against them by some of the alliance players who were disappointed at losing and were demanding to be given the bike for free too. Since the announcement of CRZ innumerable people have called them out to remove it or threaten to quit.
I could sit here all day mentioning the many polemic decisions they've made over the years that people have repeated over and over and over hoping to change their minds, but in all of them you'll find a common denominator: They accomplished jack squat. They're the ones who decide what works and what doesn't. When they see the results, they make the call to proceed with the actual course, or to change their minds (As was the case with the Real ID on Forums debacle).
You're free to continue copy&pasting the same argument on as many forums as you like, but rest assured, they
have
heard you, and they
have
answered already.
would just like to know "when".
They themselves don't know. Which is not that surprising, given that game development (Specially one involving a living breathing world populated by an actual audience of millions) isn't something that can be written in stone. This is why they have not given any actual date. They never said 6.1, just like they haven't said 6.2 either. They said flight would be enabled "eventually".
Then you say "but I wanna know when". And they responded "Eventually. But Then you say "but I wanna know when". And they responded "Eventually. But Then you say "but I wanna know when". And they responded "Eventually. But Then you say "but I wanna know when". And they responded "Eventually.
(notice the pattern there?)
They've given an answer. Flight is not permanently gone, its just taken a leaven of absence, and will be enabled at some point in the future. When will that happen, its unknown, when they're ready to let us know, they'll do so.
Post by
proterus
My initial proposal was to make flight a reward for completing the Draenor Loremaster achieves and the metas that went with it. That would insure that ALL exterior content was experienced from the ground only regardless of player level. If you want flight bad enough, you do every quest, kill every required mob, finish the side quests, etc. THEN, there would be ZERO way to imply that flight (now unlocked ACCOUNT WIDE) could trivialize the content.
This actually makes a lot of sense. I might suggest that to them myself, maybe (I know how naive that sounds, but oh well) if they see enough people suggesting it, they might do it and we won't have to wait till 6.2 (they have stated that they won't allow flight in 6.1, but I wouldn't put it past them to suddenly change mind, see the Everburning Candle)
Removed(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##While I appreciate the opinion, the thread was already sidetracked considerably before by that topic. If you feel that post longevity merits an in-depth discussion, there is always the option of making a new thread about it. This one has to stay on course.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I tried telling Bashiok, but when he blew me off,
I pretty much lost my cool and went off on him
, and his sarcastic and PR fluffed response.
Refusing to give respect will always work against you. Its already been the cause of expulsion of two forums, and it'll continue to be the cause of expulsions on as many forums as you choose to step on.
"Losing your cool" is never acceptable, even if the other side disrespects you, fighting fire with fire is never the answer.
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I tried telling Bashiok, but when he blew me off,
I pretty much lost my cool and went off on him
, and his sarcastic and PR fluffed response.
Refusing to give respect will always work against you. Its already been the cause of expulsion of two forums, and it'll continue to be the cause of expulsions on as many forums as you choose to step on.
"Losing your cool" is never acceptable, even if the other side disrespects you, fighting fire with fire is never the answer.
Respect works two ways. Maybe if the Devs/GMs respected the players more, and weren't so snarky with their responses, people wouldn't have to lose their cool.
You seem to have missed this bit from my previous post, so allow me to highlight it again:
"
Losing your cool" is never acceptable, even if the other side disrespects you, fighting fire with fire is never the answer.
Also snark isn't anywhere near as flying off the handle and throwing a barrage of verbal attacks. Not even on the same ballpark.
I had a job once where my boss was incredibly rude to me, but I depended on him, so I kept quiet. The moment a newer, better job presented itself to me, I quietly left, and even got a letter of recommendation from the supervisor (AKA my boss's boss).
Now, what do you think would happen if I had adopted your attitude? that because my boss is mean to me, I am entitled to be mean to my boss? I'd get fired, and when trying to look for a new job, I would be unable to list as a reference my previous one, because the moment they call, all they'll hear is about the one day I flew off the handle and verbally attacked my boss and made insinuations about his mom and barn animals.
I highly doubt Bashiok actually insulted you, at best he could have used sarcasm, but I've never seen a case of an actual blue poster being disrespectful of their fanbase.
But then again, you seem to think that "not doing what I want" or "Not giving me the right" is equal to being disrespectful. After all, you recently made a thread where you equaled your opinion being disagreeable, to your opinion being unwelcome (which is far from true)(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
lankybrit
I'm in the 'Please let us fly in Draenor' camp for one simple reason.
A lot of the terrain in Draenor is NOT ground mount friendly.
Post by
Rankkor
I'm in the 'Please let us fly in Draenor' camp for one simple reason.
A lot of the terrain in Draenor is NOT ground mount friendly.
Depends on the zone. Gorgrond is by far the worst. Talador is IMO the friendliest one to navigate, with nagrand being a close second (Throne of Elements Mountain range excluded)
Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eccentrica
I highly doubt Bashiok actually insulted you, at best he could have used sarcasm, but
I've never seen a case of an actual blue poster being disrespectful of their fanbase.
You must not be on Twitter.
1. None of the Blues are disrespectful. A certain former MVP yes, blues no. On the odd rare occasion they give a poster
precisely
what they have coming to them (and everyone who reads it is thrilled), but it's a very very rare happening.
2. Why the Hell would you ever give Bashiok any flack? That's like going off on the mailman when you get a bad piece of mail. Bashiok is a
Community Manager
. He is the middleman, relaying the information. He is in no way involved in Design, Development or Implementation. He also has absolutely no decision making authority regarding the game. If you're going off on Bashiok over a game feature (or lack therof) about which your knickers are in a knot, then deserve to be disrespected, insulted or otherwise because frankly, you're just being a #$%^.
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