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Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
What I actually wrote: "The questing experience itself is a huge step back
to
the BC/wrath days."
But that doesn't make any sense. You say the quests were a huge step back
from
the BC/Wrath days
ENGLISH! DO YOU SPEAK IT?
As a second language =P
Mi idioma principal es el español.
We understand one another now sir.
(Sorry about the confusion, but the little details like that can sometimes sneak by me, this is why I asked you to be a little clearer. My apologies for the misunderstanding)
The main reason we have this quest format now (which BTW was used in MoP just as much) is because several people didn't liked the linearity of the cataclysm zones, were each zone was basically one giant quest-chain that you had to do in the exact same order every single time. Instead, starting on MoP, each zone is a combination of 4 to 6 questchains that you can do in any order you like.
I for one didn't mind the linearity, but the current format doesn't bother me that much either. If your point is that quests are now like in TBC, I don't really see how. I distinctly remember how quests in there would have you back and forth through multiple zones, and how questchains were few and far between. Quests are still organized in quest-chains on WoD just like in MoP.
For example, in Frostfire, the questchains are: Establishing our presence, Taking bladespire, Helping Gan'ar on his revenge, Securing Stonefang, Defending Wor'gol, Helping the Shadow Hunters, and the finale which includes attacking the Iron Wolf and Defending Thunder Pass.
The first two questchains have to be done in the same order every time, the other chains can be done in any order you like, the last one obviously can only be done when all others are taken care of, and peppered in between all these questchains are several independent quests not related to any chains (Such as freeing the bloodmaul slaves, killing elites here and there, rescuing a cub, rescuing a boy, etc)
Its sort of a mix between the random scatteredness of TBC, and the neatly organized storytelling of cataclysm. The exact same model used in MoP.
Jade forest is: Arrive on the forest (This part includes assaulting the alliance base, assaulting their airfield, befriending the hozen, repelling the alliance attack on the hozen, and the awesome Scout's Report). From there on, its a series of chains that can be done in any order, including: Helping on Tian Monastery, Helping on the brewery to the south, Helping with the construction of the Jade Statue, and the finale when the Sha is unleashed. And peppered between all these chains are individual quests here and there (mostly on Dawn's Blossom) such as the one about the jade witch, and the two pandaren lovers from feuding families.
So how exactly has the questing experience changed for the worse? I don't understand.
Post by
1297919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dilbo
MoP was slightly less linear than Cataclysm, but still much more linear than WoD. MoP had no questgivers just standing in the middle of nowhere, waiting for you to stumble upon them so they could give you a quest that lead nowhere. By contrast, about half of WoD's quests start out that way. Catacylsm's linearity is also exaggerated. Vash was the only Cataclysm 80-85 zone that really railroaded you. Hyjal, Deepholm, and Twihi started out linear, then branched out into two or three quest chains, and then resumed linearity once all of those chains were done. Uldum was a mess of non-linearity. Anyone who thinks Cataclysm is linear obviously doesn't remember Uldum.
There's this silly myth that linearity is somehow a bad thing. I can't stand games that dump you somewhere and say "do what you want". Firstly, an RPG needs to be telling a story that you are a part of, so the main thing I want is to see the story unfold around me. To tell a story there needs a fairly narrow path of progression that tells the story. It can have branches to add variety, but the overall experience should leave the player with a sense of what the current objective is without having to consult a website like this one.
Post by
Rankkor
MoP was slightly less linear than Cataclysm, but still much more linear than WoD. MoP had no questgivers just standing in the middle of nowhere, waiting for you to stumble upon them so they could give you a quest that lead nowhere.
/raise-eyebrow.
The Sprites' Plight
Thieving Raiders
Profiting off of the Past
And the ones given by
Daggle Bombstrider
All of them quest givers in the middle of nowhere, with no breadcrumb leading you to them, waiting for you to stumble upon them so they could give you an isolated quest that leads nowhere, and is not attached to neither a quest-chain, nor the overall story arc of the zone they're located in.
And these are just the first four examples that came to the top of my head. Each zone in MoP had several of those.
By contrast, about half of WoD's quests start out that way.
Not really. Forstfire is made of 6 major quest-chains. First 2 start on your garrison, next 2 start on bladespire citadel once captured, next 2 start on your garrison again.
Gorgrond is entirely linear, 4 quest-chains, 2 start on outpost, the rest start with either Drakka, or Rexxar.
Talador is 4 questchains, 1 starts on garrison, the other 3 have breadcrumbs from your outpost in the zone once its established.
Arak has 8 questlines, 1 is isolated, and can be started on your garrison, 5 start on outpost, 2 are randomly scattered.
Nagrand is almost entirely linear. Half the quest-chains in there start on outpost, the other half are scattered, but the quest-chains from outpost will lead you to the other half eventually.
And of course, each zone has about half a dozen quests scattered that are not attached to any quest-chain and are basically just filler. Nagrand has plenty of those (as does talador), with gorgrond being the one with the least of those (Essentially just the elite kill beast ones)
Catacylsm's linearity is also exaggerated. Vash was the only Cataclysm 80-85 zone that really railroaded you.
I beg to differ. Silverpine, Westfall, Redridge, Hillsbrad, Plaguelands, Badlands, etc. Basically the entirety of the redone EK and Kalimdor was 100% linear.
Hyjal, Deepholm, and Twihi started out linear, then branched out into two or three quest chains, and then resumed linearity once all of those chains were done.
Yes on deepholm and Twilight (Particularly Twilight, other than the starting and ending questchains, the rest was branched off), but Hyjal was purely linear. The only "branching" part was choosing to help either Avianna, or Goldrinn first. Once you helped one, you helped the other, and then the rest of the zone was strictly linear.
Uldum was a mess of non-linearity. Anyone who thinks Cataclysm is linear obviously doesn't remember Uldum.
Uldum was
very
very linear. Essentially 2 quest-chains. One that sadly was too short (as it was the only one I enjoyed) which dealt with the Neferset and the Tol'vir being at war, which ends with you taking out their pharaoh. And the other which was essentially Indiana Jones in wow, except done really really bad. Everything involving Harrison Jones was strict linearity, where you go to each sub-zone in uldum to perform 2 or 3 tasks, and then neatly handheld led to the next sub-zone like a well calculated chess match.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
335450
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Post by
1107309
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
1297919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lankybrit
Uldum was
very
very linear.
HAHAHAHAHAHAno.
Uldum stops being linear as soon as you get to Ramkahen and the one dude is like "Go talk to these other 3 dudes and come back to me" and each of those dudes also has some quest chains that they want you to do. That's after completing less than a dozen quests in a zone with 124 (not counting dungeon quests, holiday quests, and pet tamer quests).
Linear questing doesn't necessarily A then B then C all the way to Z.
It means that it can sometimes branch off for a short while, then come back to the make line. It's on rails, with some detours. That's rather than spreading out and never coming back to the main line, which would be non-linear.
So, in fact, Uldum was Linear.
Oh, I should add. What makes Linear different to non-linear is when quests become available. In Linear, they don't become available until you've progressed to that point. In non-linear they are always available.
Post by
Rankkor
The Sprites' Plight
Thieving Raiders
Profiting off of the Past
And the ones given by
Daggle Bombstrider
All of them quest givers in the middle of nowhere, with no breadcrumb leading you to them, waiting for you to stumble upon them so they could give you an isolated quest that leads nowhere, and is not attached to neither a quest-chain, nor the overall story arc of the zone they're located in.
Okay, MoP had 3 such quests out of like 500. I stand corrected.
I said those were the top 3 I could think of, not that those were it. There were lots more, but I don't feel like going over the list of quests for each zone to link them all.
Either you're using a different definition of "linear" from the one that the rest of the English-speaking world uses, or you're using a different definition of "quest chain" from the one that the rest of the WoW community uses :\
These are the definitions of Linear and Questchain that I am familiar with:
Linear: There is a very strict path to the quests. Zone X has 100 quests and they all must be done in the exact same order.
Quest-chain: A series of quests that are connected to each other, quests further down the chain cannot be started without completing the earlier quests.
Cataclysm used the model of one big giant questchain per zone. MoP instead used a model of several smaller questchains per zone, where one of them served as the intro to the zone, one served as the outro to the zone, and the rest were sandwiched in between, allowing you to do them in any order.
This very same model is used by WoD, where each zone is made of a series of quest-chains. They can be done in any order, thus reducing the linearity, but the quests within those chains always have to be done in the exact same order, all the time. Exactly like in MoP.
My current progress through the zone (struggling to find two early quest chains that I seem to have skipped) is proof to the contrary.
Complete it first, its made of 8 quest-chains, the first 3 are always done in the same order, after that you can choose which ones to do next. Only 2 of them are slightly off the beaten path, and even then, 2 other questchains will lead you to them.
And of course, each zone has about half a dozen quests scattered that are not attached to any quest-chain and are basically just filler. Nagrand has plenty of those (as does talador), with gorgrond being the one with the least of those (Essentially just the elite kill beast ones)
That's as NON-linear as it gets, dude :\
Not really. If 99.99% of a zone is quests that are part of a chain, and 0.01% are scattered quests, the zone is not really non-linear. The highest number of quests that are not part of any chain I've seen was in nagrand, and I think it was 9, out of like 200.
Vash was the only Cataclysm 80-85 zone that really railroaded you.
I beg to differ. Silverpine, Westfall, Redridge, Hillsbrad, Plaguelands, Badlands, etc. Basically the entirety of the redone EK and Kalimdor was 100% linear.
Since when have any of those zones been 80-85?
They're not, but they're still part of the expansion, though of course, you're welcome to differ.
Uldum was
very
very linear.
HAHAHAHAHAHAno.
Uldum stops being linear as soon as you get to Ramkahen and the one dude is like "Go talk to these other 3 dudes and come back to me" and each of those dudes also has some quest chains that they want you to do.
Nope, you go do the quest chains of those 3 dudes, and then the entire Tol'vir questline goes right back to strict linearity. Once you've solved the tol'vir arch (Which ends with the assassination of their leader) you then start the Harrison Jones questline, and that's as on-rails as rails can get.
Post by
Eccentrica
Uldum was
very
very linear.
HAHAHAHAHAHAno.
Uldum stops being linear as soon as you get to Ramkahen and the one dude is like "Go talk to these other 3 dudes and come back to me" and each of those dudes also has some quest chains that they want you to do.
Nope, you go do the quest chains of those 3 dudes, and then the entire Tol'vir questline goes right back to strict linearity. Once you've solved the tol'vir arch (Which ends with the assassination of their leader) you then start the Harrison Jones questline, and that's as on-rails as rails can get.
Uldum puts a bridle on you and leads you by the nose through the entire zone. Adding insult to injury you spend an inordinate amount of time in cutscenes and/or being rescued by Harrison Jones. Blizzard could have saved time and energy by merely making you watch an hour long cutscene starting with the Caravan, rewarding you with xp and upgraded gear when you finished watching it. The result would have been the same.
WoD on the other hand presents you with a series of chains in different locations, with breadcrumbs leading you to them. You can do them in any order you like, with the mere requirement of progressing far enough into the zone to unlock a set of chains. Hell, there are even hidden quests and dropped-items quests, which I find an absolute delight since they reward explorative play and actually engaging in the game instead of trying to barrel through it as fast as possible.
If one needs to be led the nose, then there are several addons which will do everything but play the game for you.
Post by
lankybrit
Well said Eccy. Couldn't agree more.
Post by
Rankkor
Ugh, you had to remind me of the cutscenes. Yeah, Uldum had by far and wide the largest concentration of unskippable cutscenes
EVER
. They weren't even interesting or cool cutscenes, the majority were just people talking about mundane things, and/or you being endangered by ridiculous threats (Pigmies? WTF? This after I literally killed the Lich King and besieged a Titan citadel? And I get captured and sold into slavery by pigmies with blowguns? What the hell blizzard, what.the.hell).
There is some degree of non-linearity with the Neferset quests (For example, the tasks done to secure the votes of the high priests) but once that sequence is done, the rest of the zone is by far the most on-rails experience the game has to offer.
Post by
lankybrit
Ugh, you had to remind me of the cutscenes. Yeah, Uldum had by far and wide the largest concentration of unskippable cutscenes
EVER
. They weren't even interesting or cool cutscenes, the majority were just people talking about mundane things, and/or you being endangered by ridiculous threats (Pigmies? WTF? This after I literally killed the Lich King and besieged a Titan citadel? And I get captured and sold into slavery by pigmies with blowguns? What the hell blizzard, what.the.hell).
There is some degree of non-linearity with the Neferset quests (For example, the tasks done to secure the votes of the high priests) but once that sequence is done, the rest of the zone is by far the most on-rails experience the game has to offer.
Doesn't matter. I absolutely loved Uldum. That's why I've completely completed it at least 40 times now.
Post by
1297919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
Rankkor, I don't know what game you're playing but it's clearly not the same one that the rest of us are playing.
I find it amusing that you say "the rest of us" when everyone else here tends to agree with Rankkor.
Post by
Rankkor
Rankkor, I don't know what game you're playing but it's clearly not the same one that the rest of us are playing. Example:
Complete it first, its made of 8 quest-chains, the first 3 are always done in the same order, after that you can choose which ones to do next.
So explain to me how I got quest chains 5-8 without having done #3.
I can give you screenshots if you don't believe me.
/sighs
Nagrandeur
8 quetschains.
Might of Steel and Blood is your intro to the zone.
Shadow of the Void is the quest-chain that starts on the Throne of Elements, it involves you fighting elementals up there, and ends with a fight against void creatures on the small forest around Oshu'gun. You get a breadcrumb for this chain in your garrison.
Ring of Trials, the only quest-chain that could be said to be scattered. Nonetheless, you still end up going to the Ring of Trials eventually due to other quests taking you there, and all quests are inside the same building.
Dark Heart of Oshu'gun is yet another questchain that starts in the Throne of Elements, and culminates with a fight inside Oshu'gun.
And the last 4 (Remains of Telaar, The Taking of Lok'rath, Trouble at the Overwatch, and Legacy of Garrosh Hellscream) are all part of a single questchain that is always done in the exact same order, starting from
this
quest.
So to recap: Zone has 8 quest-chains. Half of them are strictly linear, part of the exact same plotline, and you'll do them in the same order every single time (Kill the ogres on their overwatch outpost, expel the warsong from Telaar, secure Lok'rath, and assault Grommashar). The other half are: The intro to the zone, which you'll always do first anyways, 2 quests involved in the Throne of Elements, for which you are led to via the outpost, and 1 single questchain unrelated to all the rest that is the Ring of Trials, a quest that needs no introduction since everyone knows where the Ring of Trials is.
Questions?
Post by
lankybrit
Rankkor, I don't know what game you're playing but it's clearly not the same one that the rest of us are playing. Example:
Complete it first, its made of 8 quest-chains, the first 3 are always done in the same order, after that you can choose which ones to do next.
So explain to me how I got quest chains 5-8 without having done #3.
I can give you screenshots if you don't believe me.
What's your agenda here? If Uldum is more or less linear, what is the argument that's being expounded here?
There are tons of other things to complain about in WoD that (IMHO) are way more controversial than the questing.
Post by
Rankkor
There are tons of other things to complain about in WoD that (IMHO) are way more controversial than the questing.
Meh, everyone has their own gripes about the expansion. Mine for example is shared by almost nobody, but it still pisses me off (Namely that only the alliance garrison looks awesome, I'm really disappointed at how the horde garrison and buildings look)
Post by
Eccentrica
There are tons of other things to complain about in WoD that (IMHO) are way more controversial than the questing.
Meh, everyone has their own gripes about the expansion. Mine for example is shared by almost nobody, but it still pisses me off (Namely that only the alliance garrison looks awesome, I'm really disappointed at how the horde garrison and buildings look)
I find the entirely of Frostfire Ridge to look loathsome. You guys got the short end of the stick on this one.
On a side note, I ran a lowbie Horde Alt (they never seem to get terribly far) into Org a week or so ago, and it feels ..... different, more like old-timey Org and less Gary-ish. Have there been any changes, or it is just my perception?
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