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WoW is Dumbed Down now? I disagree.
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Post by
Dilbo
People who say WoW's been dumbed down obviously haven't done the warlock green fire quest.
/shudder
I haven't, but I did help a lock who was doing a part of it. Doesn't seem too bad if you have people to give you a hand. More importantly, why are warlocks the only ones getting special class quests? I'd love a quest chain that gives me a special animation or sound effect for my shaman upon completion. :)
Post by
671564
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aibu
I completely agree with the OP.
So many people say that Cata was the worst expansion ever. I don't get it. Cataclysm has been one of my favorite raid expansions. Sure, the leveling in the various zones, and the flying in Azeroth was a bit of a bummer, but I got used to it.
BoT, Firelands, DS etc was extremely fun to play in.
They still didn't beat ICC from wrath, though. But they were excellent.
Most other tactics earlier in the game only really had an enrage timer, other than not standing in stuff.
I'll take a simple example. Ultraxxion. When, earlier in the game, did Blizz just throw an extra ability in to the game, that you had to look out for?
Someone had to take the twilight hit, while the rest avoided it.
This was something new, exciting and amazing for me.
Leveling has become dull for me, by leveling through all the expansions, but the raiding never ceases to amaze me.
Even MoP raiding(Except for ToT) has excited me, but the leveling was a pain in my ass.
Post by
Jkpman
And they made useless the druid class quests. And the alchemy spec quests. And the first aid profession.
The Alchemy spec quest just evolved to require mats more relevant. It's hardly dumbing down to update it.
First Aid has always been fairly useless, Not sure why it's still even in the game with the self heals we have now.
Post by
235245
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Maurvyn
I think a lot of people say "Dumbed Down" when what they mean is "I remember it being harder".The trick is not getting jaded and becoming the proverbial old man screaming to all the new people to get off your damn lawn cause back in your day you walked to raid up hill both ways 10 miles in the snow 8 days a week barefoot AND WE LIKED IT... It's hard to look back and remember that feeling of getting enough gear to join that leet guild. We assume that anyone who does it after us had it easier when fact is, we will never know that feeling again. Aging inside a game world we age in dog years. 10 years in wow is like 75 years in real life. Most of the vets complaining about the game are looking at the past with e-cataracts with rose colored bifocals on. If wow had never changed anything except adding content. If there were no LFR and only one mode of raids. 40 man. Wow would have 10,000 subscribers and we would all be on Thotbot right now.
^^^So much this^^^
Nail Hammered.
Post by
671564
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
So instead of focusing on reworking every single zone and quest, they could create new places for people to level. They didn't have to destroy all of the old material, and the fact that they did is the reason there are still so few places to level up now.I'm sorry...'so few places to level up now'? There are the same amount as there was...in fact, there are more now; Azshara was a level 50-60 zone originally which had about 10 quests in it, and now it's yet another 10-20 zone so that people have a choice Horde on where they want to quest: the Ghostlands, Silverpine, the Barrens or Azshara. There is some over lap but there are quite a few different paths that you can do now that you couldn't do before for the 20-45 range. I like the fact that the old world changed to reflect the on going story and got rid of those 200 or so useless ass 'run half way across the world for a low reward' quests. Is it sad that the class quests were removed? Definitely. Is it sad that zones that used to be barren and have barely any quests were reworked to be more enjoyable? Not in the least.
Also, of the 'big' chains, a lot of them still exist in a reworked form; I saw someone complaining that the battle of Darrowshire is gone...but it's not: The only difference between the original and the new one is that quest items are closer then they used to be(all found in EPL) and you don't need a raid to complete(which sucked).
As for 'new' places to level...where exactly do you expect them to squeeze these locations in? And I'm asking seriously here.
Post by
671564
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I enjoy that it was updated, but if you're going to characterize the old quests as "useless ass 'run half way across the world for a low reward' quests" (which has the virtue of only being true of a fifth of the quests), I can call
half
of the new quests handholding that brings you from an area where you have to kill a number of enemies and collect a number of things, to another area that's identical in every way but two: the premise and the scenery.
And that was prevalent in the original quests as well. I prefer the new quest hubs to the scattered and completely random quests that existed during Vanilla; if you wanted to get the original Loremaster, you had Wowhead open constantly so you knew where to go for the next set of quests(most offensive offenders being the original Azshara, Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands). That's leaving out the quest from the faction cities that sent you out to collect items; the herb collecting quest in the Swamp of Sorrows in that little cove where the bog beasts used to be where you had to kill them to drop a quest item...RNG was horrible for that quest as I once spent almost two hours circling around and around and around and around and around killing the mobs till it finally dropped the paper; only reason I stuck it out was because I am OCD about completing quests.
Post by
Eccentrica
I enjoy that it was updated, but if you're going to characterize the old quests as "useless ass 'run half way across the world for a low reward' quests" (which has the virtue of only being true of a fifth of the quests), I can call
half
of the new quests handholding that brings you from an area where you have to kill a number of enemies and collect a number of things, to another area that's identical in every way but two: the premise and the scenery.
And that was prevalent in the original quests as well. I prefer the new quest hubs to the scattered and completely random quests that existed during Vanilla; if you wanted to get the original Loremaster, you had Wowhead open constantly so you knew where to go for the next set of quests(most offensive offenders being the original Azshara, Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands). That's leaving out the quest from the faction cities that sent you out to collect items; the herb collecting quest in the Swamp of Sorrows in that little cove where the bog beasts used to be where you had to kill them to drop a quest item...RNG was horrible for that quest as I once spent almost two hours circling around and around and around and around and around killing the mobs till it finally dropped the paper; only reason I stuck it out was because I am OCD about completing quests.
Yes, but the thing is that there are people who
liked
the old quests, wandering the world, crappy RNG and non-hand-holding included. The current levelling system exists to railroad players to cap as soon as possible whether they like it or not which quite frankly ticks me off.
This, on top of the fact that numerous methods of levelling faster have been introduced (xp from mining, herbing, archy, dailies from level 10 onwards, BGs, heirlooms, RaF, the new purchasable level 90, xp needed to gain levels nerfed, etc.) have rendered the update to the old world entirely unnecessary.
They have provided the means to go from zero to hero in very brief amount of time, and have (dare I say) ruined the questing experience for people that enjoyed it. Levelling has been rendered idiot-proof.
Now, of course, the counter-argument will that it never required a doctorate to level, and that is not what I am arguing. But, it did once require reading comprehension, a bit of sleuthing, time, and some level of problem solving ability. Mobs in Northshire Abbey, for example, used to all be hostile. It was entirely possible to die there, and you learned that facepulling a bunch of mobs as a clothie meant a visit with the Spirit Healer, and some level of situational awareness was a good thing. Such a thing as a learning curve existed.
Frankly, I think the game has gone from Risk to Snakes and Ladders. Not in all respects, but in the facet of the game I enjoy most, and generally spend the most time in, which is levelling and questing. It's been turned on it's head. Where once you worked to speed up, find shortcuts and render life easier, now effort must be expended to try to make things more difficult and slower.
And for what, I ask. To get to cap, so new content can be shoved at you every 2 months for 10 months, so you can spend the remaining 14 months doing laps around your respective capital with nothing new left to do because you've devoured it all. Whoo Hoo! No. Thank. You. Cap is Feast then Famine yet somehow Blizzard thinks this to be a good thing, has dumbed down the trip there and made it a chore for players to attempt to escape the dumbness in an effort to enjoy the journey.
Post by
Adamsm
They have provided the means to go from zero to hero in very brief amount of time, and have (dare I say) ruined the questing experience for people that enjoyed it. Not all people; I still enjoy questing, and I know others who do as well. I enjoyed the fact that the quest world evolved to meet the new experiences, and I'm looking forward to the day when the Draenei and Blood Elf are updated to match their current lore(IE that the Exodar is fixed and the Blood Elves aren't using other sources of power).
Post by
Dilbo
Pretty much anybody can do heroics?
Do you mean Heroic 5 mans? If so they didn't exist in Vanilla and in TBC everybody could do heroics then too so I don't understand that. If you mean Heroic Raids then I point back to the stats. If anybody could do it, everybody would do it. What everybody can do is LFR and judging from the stats there, everybody does. That statement is simply wrong.
A lot of people did participate in heroic dungeons since their introduction. If you recall, in TBC, you had to complete one dungeon before being able to access another...or at least farm enough rep to get a key to unlock heroic mode. Nothing wrong with all players being able to participate in the game they paid for...difficulty should come in the form of improved skill over playing one's class and working with a group, not simply scaling enemy stats up to create an artificial power deficit between the player and enemy and leaving that as the "difficulty increase".
Classes are Homogenized
Really? I realize they have trimmed many of the useless talents off of class trees but that was again addressed in my OP. For every class mechanic they removed, they added one to the bosses. Vanilla encounters have fewer mechanics than current 5 man dungeons.
They are homogenized in the sense that they all have many of the same overlapping abilities and no unique abilities/buffs as they did before. Not everyone plays this game for pve, and not everyone who does pve spends time raiding...so suggesting that buffing raid bosses was somehow compensation for nerfing a player's class is ignorant.
You say we have less options when the truth is we have SO MANY MORE CHOICES it's nuts. For the first time in the game's existence ALL SPECS of ALL CLASSES are at least viable in the end game. Some may edge out others but they all compete. That is a good thing. I wish more people saw that.
Fair enough, they but it could be argued that the increased viability among the classes and specs came to fruition by making them less unique, i.e. by homogenizing them. What used to be class-defining special abilities became talents available to all specs.
Every class has a PVP stun or three...
Really how many do Shaman have that they didn't have in vanilla?
Also you just said they removed all the skills and now you are saying that they all had one to three added? Make up your mind.
No need to be an ass about it - he was right that they removed a lot of abilities (and I'll concede that a good amount of them needed to go), but making identical buffs that all classes have, except that they're named differently, was pretty lame. Shaman, in particular, were fun to play because of their unique buffs.
As far as CCs go, he also raises a valid point that there is just too much of it in the game. Where before, stuns were the specialty of the rogue and perhaps a paladin...now every class has at least one ability that stuns on demand and another that can be a proc from some other ability. Shaman actually lost their 2 sec stun that became available when they used spirit wolves; it was replaced with the capacitor totem. The former was better IMO.
Questing is linear...
I have never seen anyone complain about linear questing.
Having to go to Desolace just to get the quest to go into scarlet monastery from a guy in southshore was way too much work. Sure it was epic the first time through but on my 15th alt... It gets a bit insane. IMO Linear quest hubs is one of the finest revisions they have ever made in the game.
The 1-60 quests as well as the 70-90 quests are fine; but the TBC zone has needed an overhaul for ages and has managed to remain untouched for several expacs. They probably should have included it with the cata overhaul...I never really liked outland that much anyway.
BOAs in lowbee BGs...
I will give you this one. Without BOAs in BGs pre 70, you are pretty much screwed. Then again BGs are about the group effort. So if your team has 7/10 people in BOAs and the other side is 2/10. you are probably still going to win. What I mean is, not having BOAs does not mean your team will lose but I do understand the frustration there. Then again I have every piece of BOA gear available in the game at the moment so... I am ok with it lol.
There isn't much wiggle room here; if you do BGs below 60 and do not have BoA gear, you are going to spend a lot of time watching the res timer. Just 2 or 3 BoA geared players - even if terrible - can pin down an entire non-BoA competing team. If you're not geared you literally die in one or two hits. Without snares or gap closers there is literally nothing you can do...and hunters have an obscene advantage for much of the lower levels.
I think a lot of people say "Dumbed Down" when what they mean is "I remember it being harder".
Nothing wrong with the game evolving, but the direction they've been heading since being bought out by activision is questionable. It's really obvious that they're going for the "LCD" to pad their earnings more than they are interested in sticking to the fundamentals that made the game as popular as it is today.
I think they should shoot for having players look forward to changes in the game rather than hoping that the new version of the game addresses problems that were introduced with some previous expansion or patch.
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