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'Warlords of Draenor' and 'Rise of The Horde' novel
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Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Howdy folks.
Hai.
Some of you have probably read one of the best Warcraft novels out there (imo) by Christie Golden. Loved the lore or orcs, loved lore of draenei. Loved Durotan, Ogrim, Velen, just everyone.
Yes I have. Its one of the best books I've ever read. My favorite scene is when Ner'zhul is harshly confronted by the ancestors on how he's been deceived. VERY powerful scene, that actually made me feel sorry for him.
I'm curious as to how the book and the expansion will intertwine with each other.
Hmmm not much I'm afraid. I mean sure, the book can let you get familiarized with the faces, but the events in Warlords of Draenor took a sharp, sharp turn due to the arrival of garrosh. Hell, I haven't played any quests yet, I'm just basing myself on the scarce pre-release info we have at the moment, and the marked differences I've seen so far are:
First the obvious one that the Iron Horde is not demon tainted, other than a few orcs that are the exception, not the norm. And that they're highly technologically advanced, having things such as an industrialized complex, a train depot, tanks, battlecruisers, grenade launchers, machineguns, and even an air force.
Then we get the second big change, Grom is leading the Horde, not gul'dan or the shadow council.
Durotar is not a part of the iron horde, nor are any of his people warlocks. Related to this, the elements haven't abandoned the frostwolves, so shaman are still around.
This is a biggie: The order in which the cities fell is different here. On the book, the first major hit to the draenei came to the city of Telmor, then Karabor fell, and then the draenei made a final stand in Shattrath before they were overwhelmed.
Here, Telmor is under attack but still not fallen, Karabor is under attack but still not fallen, and Shattrath has already been conquered.
And there are several more differences. So while a few events from the book presumably will have taken place in WoD, the vast majority of the expansion will be greatly different from the book, given how the book showcases the downfall of draenei civilization, and the complete corruption of orc civilization. Which none of those happen here.
I am more than excited to see Karabor.
Me too, so much in fact, that I had sandboxed the first alpha client because I was too impatient and wanted to see the temple already. Much to my dismay, this is a very early alpha so all of the interior of the temple is unfinished and is just empty and untextured nothingness. But the outside alone, blew.my.mind.away.
Id love to see Velen kicking ass and taking names. (Im an ally Draenei if you havent guessed already).
Ufff =/ I don't wanna spoil things for ya but........ yeah....... I better don't. Besides, they said recently they're redoing the starting quests from scratch, so maybe the spoilers I saw wont come to pass (I can only hope)
But what I'd really like to see are the supporting characters that enriched the book to another level. Id like to see Restalaan, Draka, Mother Kashur, and all the rest.
Based on the datamined info, you get your wish, almost every single major character from the book is in the game. And even characters not-so-major.
I'd also love to see a deeper lore and understanding of how the Draenei society reacted and felt as a whole to the orcish invasion. A deeper lore on the Draenei way of life in Draenor.
This is gonna be a little hard, because when we arrive there, the war has been going on for years, so we wont really get a glimpse of how pre-war draenei life was like. And there's not a single zone that has been spared the horrors of war. I'm also sad that the draenei only seem to have towns and cities in Shadowmoon Valley and Talador. Though the map of the Tanaan Jungle is largely incomplete, so there's hope that they will have a few more towns in there.
I wanna be in Auchindon!
2 dungeons take place there :P and from its design it also looks like a major quest hub as well.
I wanna see the Frostwolves being so outspoken against Gul'dan and the Iron horde.
Hmm but Guldan is not a part of the iron horde. He's not the one calling the shots, and he's not even a major threat at all. *Minor Spoilers* In fact, when we arrive, he's a prisoner of the Iron Horde, and they're using him as a slave to open and power up the dark portal.
How Kiljaeden and Archimonde and the rest of the Burning Legion react to Garrosh and the rest of the ally/horde come to the pass and mess up his plans for eradicating the Draenei.
Well, this is mostly speculation on my end, but I think we wont see either of those. Blizzard said that the legion presence in this expansion is gonna be minimal, and whatever insight they could have will likely not be shared by us from the few orcs that do it.
Any speculations on who we'll see?
I'm hoping for Orgrim to do a "Heel-Face Turn" during the expansion. There's a lot of honorable orcs in the blackrock clan that I'm hoping we don't have to kill, including Doomhammer, Saurfang, and Eitrigg.
Or does anyone have any concrete information (other than info on the official website which I've already checked out)
I gave you a bit :P I've been aggressively checking out as much as I can on the lore and info of the expansion and even sandboxed the alpha client to take an early peek at the zones and new character models. Of course my info is VERY small, and all of it pre-release and subject to change prior to the expansion going live.
Is anybody else excited about lore as much as I am?
I am. Even if I'm somewhat disappointed with the quality of writing as of late, I still can't wait to dive into WoD. My main gripe with the expansion is that I'm gonna have my feet glued to the ground for god knows how long. I really hope they switch flight back on in 6.1 or I'm gonna be very unhappy on this expansion.
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Ufff =/ I don't wanna spoil things for ya but........ yeah....... I better don't. Besides, they said recently they're redoing the starting quests from scratch, so maybe the spoilers I saw wont come to pass (I can only hope)
What? What is happening? Well.. they BETTER revamp the starting quests. I mean this is like a show case for draeneis ever since the BC expansion! It BETTER be good.
Ok, take this spoiler with a MASSIVE grain of salt, because its from the early alpha of Shadowmoon Valley, and its entirely possible its gonna change before live.
But on the press release, someone posted the ending of the alliance questline there, and the enemy is mostly Ner'zhul and his clan, and among his machinations, he successfully managed to corrupt a Naaru into shadow. Alternate!Velen then sacrifices his life to restore that naaru back to the light.
Do note that it was Alternate!Velen who does this, as in, the one in Draenor, not "our" velen here in Azeroth. This doesn't make much sense to me, because in TBC it was stated twice that the naaru undergo a cycle of shadow and light on their lives. They live as light, then die, become shadow, then die and become light again. It happened twice in TBC (With K'ure and M'uru). So Velen making this sacrifice doesn't make much sense to me. I'm hoping they change this.
And its entirely possible they will, given how the Jade Forest got a 70% revamp during the MoP Beta, you can imagine how an Alpha is even more likely to have changes just as major.
You know out of curiosity, what is your race and class? You horde or alliance? Are you an orc fan or draenei fan or simply a lore fan? :D
Proud Sin'dorei (Blood Elf) Death Knight. Lore-wise my favorite class is the shaman, but mechanically, I just love the flow of the Death Knights too darn much. That and blood elves can't be shaman.
I'm mostly horde, though I also play alliance on the side to check their story (As of this writing I have 4 horde toons at 90 and 3 alliance ones) but even though I play both sides, I obviously lean heavily on the horde. I'm a huge lore fan, and though I'm an orc fan, my favorite race is Blood Elves all the way.
Draenei are my favorite alliance race and 2 out of my 3 alliance alts are all Draenei.
I am. Even if I'm somewhat disappointed with the quality of writing as of late, I still can't wait to dive into WoD
My thoughts too. At times I read novels in the warhammer universe, and then I read novels in the WC universe. The Warhammer writers seems so much more.. fitted for my age. It has a darker universe, better narrative, etc.
The WC ones are so simplified. Some of the language they use makes me think I'm reading a teen love story (like cycle of hatred, tides of war). We're lacking lore intensive books such as rise of the horde, the last guardian, and lord of the clans.
Yeah. The last books haven't been that good. I mean, with "The Shattering" I was unable to put it down. It was so good, I was completely engrossed on it. With the latest...... not so much.
AND WHY IS VELEN ALWAYS ONLY A SUPPORTING CHARACTER IN EVERY GOD DAMN BOOK!
For the same reason Gandalf is the same thing on the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He's too damned OP. If he ever got serious into fighting he would drastically unbalance the scales.
Well, this is mostly speculation on my end, but I think we wont see either of those. Blizzard said that the legion presence in this expansion is gonna be minimal, and whatever insight they could have will likely not be shared by us from the few orcs that do it.
Im still waiting for the expansion where the legion finally comes in for a full scale invasion of azeroth.
Technically speaking, that already happened in TBC. Or at least, it was attempted. They tried a full scale invasion and managed to completely take over quel'danas but were repelled before the bulk of their forces could make it through.
Full scale as in WC3, and full scale as in war of the ancients trilogy.
Not
the "full scale" arthas attacks azeroth for one day and only in the capital cities. And then the ally and horde swoop into northrend and kicks the @#$% out of him..
Hmm.... that wasn't a legion invasion though. That was the scourge. And the Scourge rabidly opposes the legion. Remember that they were the jailers of the Lich King. In WOTLK Mal'ganis was trying to overthrow Arthas with a few extremist human forces.
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I dont even know why ppl argue who would win between horde and alliance anyway :P I mean Velen, Malfurion, Tyrande, these are just immortal beings who kick the !@#$ out of everyone else. (I know elves arent exactly immortal right now, but still) Thrall and Lorthremar and all are more on par with Jaina, Varian, and Khadgar.
Because their powers are more evenly matched than you'd think.
To your Malfurion I raise Hamuul Runetotem who's just as much of a powerful druid as well (yes yes, Malfurion was the first. Still, Hamuul is also an Archdruid and has demonstrated to have more lives than a cat, I've lost count of how many times bad guys have tried to kill him, and he always survives, Even when he was burned down to a crisp)
To your Tyrande, I raise Sylvanas, who's just as good if not better at archery, and if you wish to go for the priestly-side, just as the night elves have the favor of elune, the trolls have the favor of the loa.
To Velen, I raise Thrall, who is so frikking OP he oneshotted a necropolis out of the sky when the scourge tried to invade orgrimmar, and also delivered the deathblow to deathwing.
To Varian, I raise Baine, who is every bit as badass as his father, who was still kicking ass and taking names even when pushing past 90. If Baine doesn't convinces you, there's also Lor'themar, who without having any magical capacity (other than the very limited stuff most elves can do) soloed his way to the sunwell during the scourge invasion, despite being severely injured and having lost one of his eyes.
As for Jaina and Khadgar, The horde has the blood elves, who invented magic in the first place, and who make almost every mage in the alliance look like amateurs. Not to mention being empowered by the sunwell.
Both sides are pretty evenly matched, because the alliance also has Muradin who is just as hard to kill as Hamuul, they have Greymane who's just as fierce as Baine, and so on and so forth.
I'll also add that being immortal apparently counts for nothing in this setting. Look at Tyrande. Immortal warrior-priestess who's been High General of the Sentinels for 10.000 years and has defended azeroth against TWO burning legion invasions. She gets schooled on how to lead troops on the most basic of basics of battle tactics by a human who doesn't even have 50 years of experience as a commander.
So don't see that as a gamebreaking advantage because, apparently it isnt =/ Against all logic.
Post by
matheus314
You completely forgot about High Tinker Mekkatorque.
/sadface
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Hey Rankkor,
I was reading the short stories of LorthRemar in the WoW official site (you have convinced me to know more lore of the blood elves through your posts in other forums). I also watched horde cinematics on utube (domination point, the divine bell, WoTLK cinematics, etc.)
I find myself more sympathetic to the horde than before. (I only have alliance toons for RP reasons) Lots of misunderstandings, lots of generalizations, etc. LorthRemars comments saying the horde wouldn't exist if it wasnt for alliance prejudice and racism hit hard.
Good.
The thing is, I think the horde doesnt have evil leaders. But they have fairly incompetent leaders in some aspects.
Meh, there's incompetent leaders in both sides of the fence.
Who in the world leaves Garrosh as horde warchief?
Its easy to say this now, in hindsight, after all its been said and done, but at the time, it seemed like a good idea. What a lot of players fail to realize (or consciently choose to ignore out of convenience) is that the alliance was just as antagonistic as the horde was. The horde kept trying to avoid a fight, and yet some members of the alliance kept asking for one. At the end of the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, there was a peace treaty between both sides. A peace treaty that the alliance broke first when they sent troops into durotar, sen'jin village, and the barrens. All of whom took place BEFORE the shattering.
Now, take the context that the orcs live in a desolate and arid land that can't properly sustain them, rather than the lush and fertile forests of Elwynn and Ashenvale. They tried to etch an existence in this land by trade (Thrall had offered the alliance to buy supplies for them since orgrimmar lies on top of one of the largest copper deposits in azeroth) and the alliance refused. They tried to etch a living by force, and their own leader refused. Then along comes a new orc rising in popularity because he doesn't ask, he takes.
He doesn't tries to parlay with the humans who have attacked the orcs time and again for crimes that were made decades ago. He doesn't tries to negociate or barter. He seizes what he thinks is his. And all of the sudden, Thrall has to make a choice between facing a rebellion, or stepping down willingly.
At the time of the cataclysm, Garrosh seemed like the right option for a leader, because he was unwilling to take any crap, he was willing to get results. And results he obtained. Under his rule the horde expanded, it thrived, it grew larger, it annexed new tribes, it underwent an industrial revolution, and it obtained massive resources.
He probably would had been the greatest orc leader in history if only he wasn't so narrowly focused on making the ORCS stay on top and everyone else be stepping stones for the orcs to stand on. That was ultimately the beginning of his downfall.
You let your head apothecary and chief lieutenant back stab you during a major offensive against Arthas (and leaving many alliance dead as well, making them hate you even more) and also take over your capital city?
Be real there, nobody could had predicted that putress would turn traitor. Much the same way as the alliance would had never in a million years predict that their very own Archbishop of the Church of the Holy Light, THE largest religious institution on the planet, would turn up to be the leader of a murderous nihilistic cult obsessed with bringing the end of the world.
This however is one of the things I like about the horde. We had traitors? yes we did, but the horde didn't tried to sweep them under the table, and pretend they never happened. They happened alright, they acknowledged their treachery took place. And then they took care of them, and took care that it wouldn't happen again. Putress and his coup? dealt with, and the rest of the apothecaries under heavy surveillance.
How does the alliance deals with traitors? lets see, Benedictus ends up a traitor, and they covered that up and pretended it didn't happened. Staghelm was a traitor, and they covered that up too, and pretended it didn't happened. Maiev is a traitor, and its also covered up. 95% of the house of nobles in stormwind is trecherous, yet not only is that covered up, they still retain their seats of power, despite continuously backstabing the royal family over and over again.
I'm sorry man, but the alliance is nobody to be saying anything about how we deal with traitors.
Allowing yourself to (re)drink demon blood and then kill a demigod of the night elves (warcraft 3)?
That was a portion of the horde. And again, its not like portions of the alliance haven't gone crazy either. Look at the scarlet Crusade. Paladins with the mission of reclaiming lordaeron, and yet look at how they ended up.
Letting your race be corrupted by demons and butchering an entire race of Draenei?
Be fair, that was a completely different horde, led by corrupt people that actively lied to the rest of the orcs to manipulate them. And once more, its not like the alliance hasn't been lied and manipulated before. All the kings of the alliance were dancing on the lap of deathwing, and it was only by luck that they didn't ended up making him supreme leader of the world. Then the king of stormwind was lapdancing for the daughter of deathwing too. The night elves were unwittingly serving a corrupt druid who was secretly poisoning the land. And before that, they were following a mass murderous queen that nearly destroyed the world.
The gnomes were also lied by their second in command as well, and manipulated into destroying their own home.
So once again, the alliance is not exactly anyone to be berating the horde for being easy to trick or manipulate for nefarious ends.
Im not saying the alliance leaders are faultless... But I fail to find any faults that are anywhere as big as the examples listed above.
I can. I just gave you a bunch of examples above.
But if you cant control the actions of your people, can you really blame the other faction for labeling you?
Varian wasn't able to control his own people which is why the defias rebellion happened.
Dwarves weren't able to control their cousins which is why a Firelord was summoned and 33% of the eastern kingdoms is a scorched wasteland.
There's more examples too.
I agree that the alliance should not label all horde as evil, because they arent. But considering that a green skinned demon crazed race attacked your world
Hold it right there. Yes, the orcs attacked the kingdoms, but in case you didn't noticed, they paid for their crimes. A HUUUUUUUUGE number of them died during the war. Many more were killed after it in trials. And then the rest, men women and children were all sent to jail for 2 decades. The current orcs are not to be held accountable for the actions of their fathers and forefathers. And the few surviving veterans of the first and second war, already paid enough hell for the horrors they commited. This is the part that the alliance refuses to see. That the orcs caused pain and they were paid in turn with plenty of pain on their side.
considering the undead wiped out half of the human kingdoms
Hold it right there. The forsaken are not the scourge. And the alliance knows this.
Jaina did that, she looked pass prejudices. And see what she got? Theramore got nuked.
Theramoore got nuked for a completely different reason. It wasn't because she looked past prejudices. Wanna know why? because she sent her troops to attack the horde on FIVE different fronts. Unprovoked.
Mess with the bull? don't complain when you get the horns.
The horde left her alone prior to the cataclysm because while she was friendly to the alliance, she was also not involved in the war at all. Post-cataclysm however, her city and her troops became a major center of operations for the alliance to launch multiple attacks on several horde fronts that left several men women and children dead.
So don't go all "jaina trusted them and see what she got". What you should be saying is "Jaina attacked them, and look what she got".
And then she wanted to be good again and lead Dalaran as a neutral faction. And what did she get? Horde snuck in and used portals to steal the divine bell. I know that it was all Garrosh, NOT horde.
DON'T
even get me started on that. Just....... don't. Ask anyone. >_>
I'm just gonna link you 2 separate threads where I've made my stance on the purge of dalaran sufficiently clear. (after I find them)
(Sorry man, I know you just want to have a friendly discussion about that bit, but the Purge is a really sore topic for me that flares up my temper because it reminds me too much of a similar real life massacre that I had to endure on my country. So I'm avoiding discussing that thing in order to avoid saying something I'll regret against someone who's been otherwise pretty friendly so far)
But its easy to be on the moral high ground when its not your city and friends being annihilated.
Yeah, tell that to the frostwolf tribe, attacked unprovoked by dwarves who seek to kick them off their land. Tell that to the stonespire tribe of tauren, butchered down to 5 men by more dwarves. Say that to the people of razor hill, attacked by a flotilla of marines they had never wronged before. Say that to Taurajo. Say that to the innocent civilians in dalaran who got dragged to the sewers to be beaten, tortured, and fed alive to mutated sharks despite having commited no crime.
its easy for the alliance to claim the moral ground because they love to pretend they never have done anything wrong.
Its not that the entire horde is evil, its just that they have certain characters and events that AGAIN and AGAIN feed the flames that would renew prejudice and hatred towards them.
And so does the alliance. Need I remind you that Thrall almost brought an end to the ashenvale conflict by offering to trade with the alliance and it was VARIAN who backed off? it was VARIAN who also attacked the warchief on the undercity? it was VARIAN who also sent assassins to attack an unarmed horde ship transporting thrall to the maelstrom? The alliance has just as many characters that again and again flame and renew prejudice against the horde.
They just need to get their act together and not let these things happen again and again.
This goes for both sides. not just the horde.
Post by
43880
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Yo
So whats happening in Venezuela?
Check the link in my signature for a very short, incomplete, and abridged version of what's going on now. I'd rather not derail the thread.
Im chinese living in Indonesia and my race got 'purged' in the 1998 riots (wiki it if you want) so I guess i can sympathize.
Sorry to hear that.
Anyhow, show me that forum of Sunreavers getting kicked out of Dalaran because Id love to see the arguments from both sides.
I'll link them tomorrow. Be warned that its a very long read.
I have a feeling bliz shows the atrocities of the alliance more if youre playing horde, and the atrocities of the horde more if u play ally. Just to make us hate each other more.
Yes, but what annoys me is how the attrocities of the alliance are swept under the rug and are so obscure, most players don't even know about them. Its like its popular to spread the word nonstop when the horde does something bad, but when the alliance does something bad, its barely discussed, and quickly forgotten.
But if you do a count by count of actions done by each side to the other side, neither is the good guys. Both have done horrible war crimes to each other. Its just that blizzard (and a large segment of the players) love to just make it look like its all the horde's fault. The horde is the only one who always throws the first stone.
For no better example, look at the argument you gave in favor of Jaina "She was willing to trust the horde and look how she got repaid". Almost NOBODY is willing to acknowledge that it was her troops invading multiple horde lands, with civilians included and killing them by the hundreds. Apparently, that's perfectly ok, and is no grounds for an attack. Because nobody ever talk about it.
Do you have an ally character?
Yep. 4 actually (DK, Monk, Warlock, and Druid)
Post by
matheus314
So you explain one side problems by pointing that bad stuff happens on the other side too? Really a good way to make your side look better, huh? No, wait...
(Going to take a different look on the matter here, hope I don't get too far away from the original idea of this thread...)
Both sides always do a poor effort to end the war because that's what Blizzard thinks its necessary to make the game move forward, yet it is all the big baddies that show up now and again and makes Horde and Alliance to join forces to wipe them out (counting Garrosh on this one too).
The problem with Southshore, Taurajo, Ashenvale, Barrens, Theramore, Stonard, Gilneas, etc... is that they are petty excuses created by Blizzard to make the war flames up. And they're very badly written or explained for those who dig deeper to understand what really happened, and this leads to weird speculation and sometimes even worse retcons from the company itself.
If they really wanted to make the game go forward, they'll have to choose if the major threats are outside or inside the Alliance vs. Horde scheme. That means, settling Azeroth's borders as definitive and making both live in a cold war state, fighting for new influence on far away fronts only and joining forces against the big baddies. Or transform it into a full total war, where most attrition zones in Azeroth would get a PvP focus and the major cities would be the only safe place to be (which is what I thought we'd get when I heard about the Cataclism expansion).
Post by
Rankkor
So you explain one side problems by pointing that bad stuff happens on the other side too?
Really a good way to make your side look better, huh?
No, wait...
Nope. I wasn't trying to make my side look better, I was trying to illustrate that NONE of the sides is better. They're both just as bad as the other one, and neither can claim moral superiority when there's saints and devils on both sides.
Post by
matheus314
So you explain one side problems by pointing that bad stuff happens on the other side too?
Really a good way to make your side look better, huh?
No, wait...
Nope. I wasn't trying to make my side look better, I was trying to illustrate that NONE of the sides is better. They're both just as bad as the other one, and neither can claim moral superiority when there's saints and devils on both sides.
Thanks. At least you admit the Horde made A LOT of bad stuff (including Southshore, Theramore, Astranaar, Gilneas...).
Post by
morginar
Mainly to balance the leveling zones between the factions realy. And ally had more zones so more conquest for the horde. And oh Ashenvale and s. barrens needed to go contested.
Or to force the new cata races into the factions. by having the other faction being a duchebag.
Post by
Rankkor
So you explain one side problems by pointing that bad stuff happens on the other side too?
Really a good way to make your side look better, huh?
No, wait...
Nope. I wasn't trying to make my side look better, I was trying to illustrate that NONE of the sides is better. They're both just as bad as the other one, and neither can claim moral superiority when there's saints and devils on both sides.
Thanks. At least you admit the Horde made A LOT of bad stuff (including Southshore, Theramore, Astranaar, Gilneas...).
I have never denied the crimes the horde has made. That's what the alliance players have done, they are the ones who love to deny, ignore, or downplay A LOT of the bad stuff their side has done. Amusingly, this happens in-universe too, because the horde in-game has never denied all the horrible deeds they've made, but the alliance, has made just as many horrible crimes against nature and life, and they deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness.
Ultimately, this is why I prefer the horde. At least we're not hypocrites about who's evil and who isn't.
Garona said it best:
"
In your histories, there are continual justifications for all manner of hellish actions. Claims of nobility and heritage and honor to cover up every bit of genocide, assassination, and massacre. At least the Horde is honest in their naked lust for power.
"
Post by
matheus314
If by
"deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness"
you mean
"try to fix all the bad things that bad individuals of the faction have done in the past instead of praising and cheering them"
, then you might be right.
Post by
morginar
If by
"deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness"
you mean
"try to fix all the bad things that bad individuals of the faction have done in the past instead of praising and cheering them"
, then you might be right.
Bishop Farthing
has a very intresting opinion on
Archbishop Benedictus
.
Thats how alliance react to their villiany. No wonder why Tyrion the Ashbringer doesn't want to join the alliance.
Post by
Rankkor
If by
"deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness"
you mean
"try to fix all the bad things that bad individuals of the faction have done in the past instead of praising and cheering them"
, then you might be right.
Nope. By "deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness" I actually meant "deny them, cover them up, downplay them, or try to sugar-coat it with a layer of self-righteousness"
Benedictus turned traitor. That was covered up. Staghelm turned traitor, that was covered up. Maiev turned traitor, its also a secret. Stormwind Nobility has been backstabbing the royal family, its also covered up. Assassins were sent against a civilian horde ship, covered up. Tribe of tauren were wiped out unprovoked down to the last man, it was justified with a layer of self-righteousness. Orc tribe was attacked unprovoked, not only the ones responsible were promoted, they later tried to use WMDs to carpet bomb an entire zone.
And regarding your "Try to fix all the bad things that bad individuals of the faction have done in the past". Marshal Twinbraid butchered a tribe of peaceful tauren unprovoked even when the taurens pleaded for peace. He was promoted to General.
Jaina wrongfully incarcerated, tortured, and killed countless civilians who did no crime. She wasn't punished in the least, and is for all intents and purposes now queen of her city.
Admiral Rogers orders the extermination of unarmed horde troops, she gets a medal.
So regarding your "we fix the bad things instead of praising them" stance, I'm calling BS.
Post by
morginar
Admiral Rogers orders the extermination of unarmed horde troops, she gets a medal.
To be fair that wasn't overly bad. Just stupid as hostages are tacticaly more valuable.
But if Rell was even a shread of a night elf he would have shot them down in a hearbeat.
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