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Post by
Monday
You must have loved MoP. The only horde race that didn't get any spotlight was the Forsaken.
MoP sucked and made me quit.
Post by
oneforthemoney
You must have loved MoP. The only horde race that didn't get any spotlight was the Forsaken.
MoP sucked and made me quit.
I believe you mean Cataclysm.
Post by
Monday
... point. They both sucked. MoP was just the nail in the coffin.
Post by
morginar
They might be...too bad the WoD Draenei are fighting on the side of the Alliance, so about the only thing they'd learn would be 'Vindicator Hammers are really good at crushing skeletal heads'.
Then how is Lady Liadrina and the Blood Knights supposed to learn anything from the Dreanei?
You mean...the Sacred Burial Ground of the Draenei? Since this is before the explosion that allowed the corruption into the Crypts and formed the Shadow Priest/Necromancer group?
Supposedly the necromatic cult existed before the explosion. The explosion just made a good portion crazy.
I See Dead Draenei
start a quest chain with good necromatic spacegoats.
Since the Horde doesn't have a starting point in Shadowmoon Valley....probably not.
I doubt gul'dan will be limited to Shadowmoon and 6.0. We will not combat him as the Iron horde is the big threat and Gul'dan isn't with the Iron horde. But Gul'dan is evil and will do something for sure later in the expansion.
Post by
Adamsm
Then how is Lady Liadrina and the Blood Knights supposed to learn anything from the Dreanei?I haven't seen anything yet that the Blood Elves are going to have any interaction with the WoD Draenei, beyond in a war set up. Yes, the Lady and her Knights are learning things now....but those are the current Draenei, not the alternate time line ones. And of course, if a Forsaken were to approach a Draenei, I have a feeling it's going to be 'Oh %^&*, Necromancy! Kill the skeleton and find the Dreadlord before he creates more of them!'.
Supposedly the necromatic cult existed before the explosion. They could speak with the dead, but they didn't raise them...after all, the quest you linked is about destroying the corrupted teachings. Those who served in the Crypts, as seen in Beyond the Dark Portal book, were able to call on the spirits of the fallen draenei for assistance, but only the spirits; they did not raise dead bodies to fight for them.
Post by
morginar
They could speak with the dead, but they didn't raise them...after all, the quest you linked is about destroying the corrupted teachings. Those who served in the Crypts, as seen in Beyond the Dark Portal book, were able to call on the spirits of the fallen draenei for assistance, but only the spirits; they did not raise dead bodies to fight for them.
Necro = death. Talking with someone dead is necromancy. Necromancy is all things dead. Talking to them is a part of necromancy. Dreanei death priests probably knew more than just talking to dead people, or did the insanity expolosion stream necromantic knowlage? I guess dreanei are able to ask the dead for their assistance. This knowlage could be used to ask dead humans if they want a ressed into undeath.
I haven't seen anything yet that the Blood Elves are going to have any interaction with the WoD Draenei, beyond in a war set up. Yes, the Lady and her Knights are learning things now....but those are the current Draenei, not the alternate time line ones. And of course, if a Forsaken were to approach a Draenei, I have a feeling it's going to be 'Oh %^&*, Necromancy! Kill the skeleton and find the Dreadlord before he creates more of them!'.
The blood knighs are going to have a part to play in WoD. As we heard in blizzcon 2013.
If blood knights gets to chat with dreanei then why not cult of the forgoten shadow?
Post by
Adamsm
why not cult of the forgoten shadow?1) Cause they are Forsaken, and the Draenei probably aren't going to want to talk to so corrupted a race.
2) The Cult has never actually been made canon in the actual game.
The blood knighs are going to have a part to play in WoD. As we heard in blizzcon 2013.That's a stretch though to think that they are going to 'work' with the WoD Draenei...especially with the less then stellar current working situation between the Blood Elves and the Alliance. But we'll have to wait and see.
Necro = death. Talking with someone dead is necromancy. Necromancy is all things dead. Talking to them is a part of necromancy. Dreanei death priests probably knew more than just talking to dead people, or did the insanity expolosion stream necromantic knowlage? I guess dreanei are able to ask the dead for their assistance. This knowlage could be used to ask dead humans if they want a ressed into undeath.Not true; the Orcs can talk with the spirits of the dead ancestors through Shamanism, that is not necromancy. From pretty much everything said, it seems like all Necromancy has one source: The Dreadlords, who taught it to the other races. As the entire point of that quest line, where you go to get the Book, involves killing a Draenei corrupted into a Man'ari(I was wrong about the Dreadlord sorry) on the upper tier of the Auchidoun, I'm guessing the Draenei are not using actual necromancy until the corruption after the place blows up.
Kinda ironic that you link the quest, which when you read it and all, shows that the Priests are not suppose to be rezzing the dead.
Edit: Oh and from the next quest:
Ezekiel
.
I believe that the dead, which we have been caring for these last 500 odd years, should be left alone. Maladaar has other plans.
He has retreated to the Crypt of Remembrance to start his experiments... Necromancy.
I hope you weren't thinking about going in there... Not before helping me out so that these damned spirits will finally leave me alone.
Edit 2:
Then there is vision of the Dead
:
It has already begun. Levixus stands atop the ruins of Auchindoun and reads from the book of the dead. He calls the dead out by name and, through demonic ritual, binds the tortured souls to his will. He will raise all of Auchindoun if given the chance!
More points towards actual binding the dead as servants is tied into demon energy and corruption.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Actually, if I remember correctly, it was said the Faceless also employ necromancy. Something we have seen with Onyxia and Nefarian.
Post by
Adamsm
Don't see any mention of the Faceless/Old Gods using necromancy on the page on Wowpedia.
And Onyxia and Nefarion are a type of necromancy as well...but it's still seems to be the standard form for the most part, which again, seems to have originated with the Legion. Of course the Ony and Nef had Cho'gall as the leader of the Twilight Hammer....and who was it who helped Gul'dan make the first generation of death knights all those years ago?
Post by
morginar
1) Cause they are Forsaken, and the Draenei probably aren't going to want to talk to so corrupted a race. Then how is a undead player character going to talk to a neutral dreanei?
2) The Cult has never actually been made canon in the actual game.
Then it is about time.
Not true; the Orcs can talk with the spirits of the dead ancestors through Shamanism, that is not necromancy. From pretty much everything said, it seems like all Necromancy has one source: The Dreadlords, who taught it to the other races. As the entire point of that quest line, where you go to get the Book, involves killing a Eredar* on the upper tier of the Auchidoun, I'm guessing the Draenei are not using actual necromancy until the corruption after the place blows up.
Kinda ironic that you link the quest, which when you read it and all, shows that the Priests are not suppose to be rezzing the dead.
Necromancy have many sources. Zanzil uses alchemy. Trolls have a long history of necromancy (farraki, mummies). Whos to say it doesn't come from shamanism?
Necro = dead and all things dead.
I assume death priests are like shamans and the common necromancer is like a dark shaman. The forsaken want to be able to use 'shamanism' instead of 'dark shamanism'.
"Observe how the shadowflame reanimate the dead"- Nefy. Guess shadowflame always necro dead bones?
That's a stretch though to think that they are going to 'work' with the WoD Draenei...especially with the less then stellar current working situation between the Blood Elves and the Alliance. But we'll have to wait and see.It's most logical to belive they are going to work with WoD Dreanei. As they are goign to do it in WoD.
Post by
Adamsm
Then how is a undead player character going to talk to a neutral dreanei?I'm hoping there are no neutral orcs or draenei in the expac; rather then 'stretching' things over, just have it so that each group can have their own section.
Whos to say it doesn't come from shamanism?Now that is an incredible stretch. The Troll skills in necromancy would have come from their connection to the Loa of Death.
It's most logical to belive they are going to work with WoD Dreanei. As they are goign to do it in WoD.We'll have to wait and see...but I don't think it's going to stick to be honest.
Post by
Monday
The Troll skills in necromancy would have come from their connection to the Loa of Death.
Now that is an incredible stretch.
Post by
morginar
Now that is an incredible stretch. The Troll skills in necromancy would have come from their connection to the Loa of Death.
Loa = Spirit
Shamans/ shadow priests talk to spirits.
And thus necromancy.
I'm hoping there are no neutral orcs or draenei in the expac; rather then 'stretching' things over, just have it so that each group can have their own section.
Rather have neutral orcs and dreanei than having to do this Alliance (human) vs Horde (orc) in WoD.
Plus it's going to be a pain to do all the zones with hubs for alliance and horde seperatly. And kinda not-so-logical when the factions face the same enemy.
Post by
Adamsm
The Troll skills in necromancy would have come from their connection to the Loa of Death.
Now that is an incredible stretch.
Bwonsamdi says hello
, since it actually says he is a powerful loa that controls the spirits of the dead.
Shamans/ shadow priests talk to spirits.
And thus necromancy.But...they aren't creating 'life' from death; they do not control the Spirits, they merely ask them for help. Necromancy is all about complete control...and after that scene in War of the Ancients, we know that the Dreadlords have been practicing it for a very long time. Gul'dan got his necromancy spells from the Legion. The Scourge was Legion based. Other then the Trolls, no other race seemed to learn it 'naturally'. But you completely ignored the rest of the edits up there Morg; the ones where Ramdor the Mad tells you that the corrupted priests in Auchidoun are using Necromancy, which seems to show that whatever they were doing before, it doesn't have any tie to necromancy.
After all, going off that idea, then you might as well say that Shadow Priests are Warlocks since they use Shadow energy when attacking.
Post by
Monday
Bwonsamdi says hello
, since it actually says he is a powerful loa that controls the spirits of the dead.
Darkspear only. What of the other troll tribes?
Post by
morginar
Shadow Priests are Warlocks
I have it hard to tell the diffrance sometimes... :S
Necromancy is all about complete control
Indeed it is. But what if there is a ask and recieve part of it? Like shamans? Just that most know the controll part like Dark Shamans. The current forsaken would realy desire such knowlage.
Ramdor the Mad tells you that the corrupted priests in Auchidoun are using Necromancy, which seems to show that whatever they were doing before, it doesn't have any tie to necromancy.
Corruption turned shamans into dark shamans? The dreanei might not have called their "light necromancy" necromancy. Becouse the diffrance in the two was too great in their opinion. But as we know very little what they did before coruption. It is mostly just speculation and wishes.
But I'll admit deafeat. The dreanei do not know necromancy. Atleast not in a way that we call necromancy. And we have a 70% chanse of geting more data on the subject in WoD.
But my point is. There is stuff in WoD that one forsaken npc might want. Or a unit even. Even if it only is apophecaries wanting us to collect herbs for a cure/bio-wepon.
Post by
Adamsm
Bwonsamdi says hello
, since it actually says he is a powerful loa that controls the spirits of the dead.
Darkspear only. What of the other troll tribes?
May want to read the Loa page again, since it does say that the Darkspears came from the Gurubashi, he started there. And since apparently we can go from Shamanism to Necromancy, he may have been worshiped by the other tribes as well; from what it seems, he is the Loa of Death.
But as we know very little what they did before coruption. It is mostly just speculation and wishes.Other then what Ramdor tells us of the past, the information we learn in the quest line and the scene from Beyond the Dark Portal of course about how they used the powers.
There is stuff in WoD that one forsaken npc might want. Or a unit even. Even if it only is apophecaries wanting us to collect herbs for a cure/bio-wepon.Of course; but the main idea of Draenei helping the Forsaken is a bit of a stretch, since again, these are the WoD ones who are fighting a war...and have long memories; if the Dreadlords used 'true' necromancy at any point during the Great Flight, then they would be able to recognize them as that, and would more then likely hit first question later.
But yes, it's all a matter of waiting.
Post by
Monday
May want to read the Loa page again
Before driven away from the
Echo Isles
by Zalazane and his hexed trolls, the Darkspear tribe once worshipped the great spirit.
u wot m8.
Post by
Adamsm
Loas: Darkspear section.
There you go.
Post by
Monday
Originally part of the Gurubashi Empire, the Darkspear also continue to worship many of the Gurubashi loa:
Shirvallah, the Tiger.
Hir'eek, the Bat.
Elortha no Shadra, the Spider, God of Spiders, The Venom Queen, Mother of Venom, Silk Dancer, Death's Love.
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