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Remove Dungeon and Raid Finder
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Post by
Axmand
I can renember when you was in Raid Party, waiting/using the stone to summon the others players, then others players of the other faction come and wipe yours because they want to use the stone too, why they dont put the stone inside of the raid/dungeon?
I also renember the "Mass call" guild skill but blizz remove it because "teletransportation it dont fit with wow that much".
IMO LFD/LFR is a usefull tool not for have an epic gear but also to know the lore inside the raids... specialy, also in LA servers is hard to find hardcore guilds to raid...
Post by
Rankkor
Way too exagerated to get your point across.Um...did you ever try to get Mara groups in Vanilla? If you were Alliance, you either started in Stormwind or Ironforge, and here's the trip: You catch a flight to Menethil. If you have the flight paths, you take the Darnassus boat. If you don't, you take the Theramore boat. Once you reach your destination, you were on either a 30 minute trek or a 15 minute flight. Or even more fun, going from Stormwind to the Plaguelands. Or even better, going to Dire Maul from Stormwind. Back then, there was travel time, and if someone bailed on the group, you were then waiting again as someone went back to a city to find a new person.
Yep. And it was just as horrible as horde. Trying to go to BRD from Orgrimmar was VERY time-consuming. Ditto if you wanted to go from org to Uldaman.
LFG and LFR are the best things that could had happened to this game, and it reflects how much of an impact it has had on MMO gaming in general that every new MMO that comes out WITHOUT an LFG tool, flops BADLY. Then the developers realize that they have to stop being aging fossils and add a bloody LFG, and suddenly boom, game is fun again.
Many many MANY games have tried to make it these days without an automated group finder, and what's the end result? people having to resort to websites similar to Openraid because guess what? BUILDING A GROUP ISN'T FUN!!!!
Eventually the developers give up, add an LFG tool and everyone is happy. It happened in SWTOR, and in many other games.
Post by
235245
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Jkpman
Reasons not to take away the LFD and LFR:
1. So we don't go back to the days of BC where people would bail after one boss was killed. Almost no one wanted to join a Heroic that was already in progress.
Either you never played BC or somehow had incredibly bad luck by exclusively grouping with people who were so incompetant that they would leave a group of players for failing once on a boss encounter after spending a large amount of time just form the group......
5. To not have to spend almost an hour traveling from one continent to the other to run an instance, where you may or may not actually get a chance to run it...anyone who ran dungeons in Vanilla knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Way too exagerated to get your point across.
Basically what Adamsm said, I remember those days too and it happened. If you think it is exaggerated then maybe you weren't playing back then.
The only real change LFD needs is:
- To remove the option to purchase gear with valor / JP, queue, then refund the bought item immediately as a means of getting around the ilevel.
lol WUT? Who the hell is doing this?
- Force a manual instance requirement so players must first complete the dungeon by entering it through its normal entrance before you can queue for it in LFD (used to be like this)
Why?
A few months into the expansion how easy do you think it's going to be to find a group to run an instance with you so you can be attuned? (Try getting a manual group tonight on your server to run regular Stormstout.)
What if you have a group of scrubs? Do you then have to find the instance AGAIN next time because you didn't complete the dungeon/raid?
- Force a spec / role requirement so players cannot join as a tank in a dps spec, or vice versa, or dps spec in a healing role. if specs must be switched in the middle of a dungeon in progress then an announcement to the group goes out notifying them you are changing spec.
This sounds like the start of a joke. A Guardian Druid walks into a raid...
Maybe you don't get it, but how would the spec role requirement work differentiating between say a Kitty and Bear (DPS, Tank) or Disc and Holy Priests, what would be the tipping point? Sorry dude not enough spirit on that cloth, you lied you no healer!
I assume this won't even be an issue in WoD anyway, it seems reasonable that if you queue as Tank your gear will automatically be Tank gear.
Post by
kehakas
I love the convenience of LFD but the grandeur of Vanilla is definitely gone, and it's sad. Some thoughts:
- I'm pretty sure it was possible to run Stormwind jail as Horde, right? Either way, it was fun getting buddies together and doing STV > Duskwood > Westfall to get into Deadmines as Horde. Also just grouping up and running like hell through Loch Modan and getting chased by elite dwarves, or stealthing into Ironforge and riding the Deeprun Tram or attacking the Ironforge king and dying immediately. You can probably still do all this stuff, but all the teleporting makes it less likely.
- Maybe the speed at which alts gain XP could be based on how many higher-level toons you have. People leveling their fourth alt could do it very quickly since this is the fourth time they're finding Mankrik's wife, but they could also uncheck that option and level at the normal rate.
- I re-subbed two weeks ago on my 70 priest. Ninety-five percent of 70-81 has been queueing for LDF over and over. It's easy and lucrative, but I have no incentive to do WotLK content or Cata content, and I hardly get to experience the dungeons because tanks move so freakin' fast through those things that you hardly have time to loot trash. I feel like there's a balance to be struck between the old trash-heavy five-hour nightmares like BRD and the new dungeons that you can blow through. I will say that so far, Cata dungeons have more challenging encounters than WotLK.
- Some of you are characterizing getting to dungeons in Vanilla as a total chore, and you're right. It was a nightmare getting organized, people dropped, etc. But it's like you're totally ignoring that now we have flying mounts. As long as there's a hub on each continent and all the hubs are connected, and they make zeppelins more frequent, between that and flight paths and flying mounts, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the old days. I'm still in favor of the convenience of LFD, but don't act like what the OP is suggesting is a return to the bad old days of 100% ground mounts. Maybe for six months after an xpac is released, you can't teleport to the new dungeons via LFD, you've gotta use a summoning stone. I'm only 81 so I could be wrong, but isn't it currently possible to run any dungeon without ever actually visiting its entrance? Hell, all the quest givers are inside.
Some of you jumped down the OP's throat and accused him of trying to control how millions of player play. Yet that's exactly what the devs do, and they listen to player input, so it's not exactly radical for someone to post a game-changing idea on the wowhead forums to get feedback. What the OP is suggesting is essentially taking options away from the player. It sounds like most people here think that LFD and LFR teleporting is a step forward. I agree, while being sentimental about Vanilla. But there are ways of making that argument without brow-beating the OP.
Post by
Adamsm
the grandeur of Vanilla is definitely goneYes because endless grinds, quests with no resolution, dungeons that were a pain in the butt to get to was just the 'glory' days of WoW.
But it's like you're totally ignoring that now we have flying mounts. As long as there's a hub on each continent and all the hubs are connected, and they make zeppelins more frequent, between that and flight paths and flying mounts, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the old days. I'm still in favor of the convenience of LFD, but don't act like what the OP is suggesting is a return to the bad old days of 100% ground mounts.15 to 59 does not have a flying mount. And sure there are 'new' flight paths....but since some people just sit in the cities while leveling, they wouldn't have those paths so you would be waiting for people to come over. And if you lost a person, that would send people back to a city to get a new one, who may or may not have the flight points as well. And all of the problems still exist; Zul'Farrak, Blackrock, Dire Maul and Mara are still a pain in the butt to get to, and the worst are the Kraul and the Downs: Going through the Southern Barrens with everything trying to kill you at level is not fun.
Post by
kehakas
I didn't say I miss everything about Vanilla WoW, I said I miss the grandeur, by which I mean the scope that players were, for lack of a better word, forced to experience. And I'm spitballing ways of recapturing that without making the game as inconvenient as it used to be. I'm not saying "bring back everything about Vanilla without trying to fix the stuff that didn't work!" Those are words you're putting in my mouth.
I agree that 15 to 59 is screwed for travel without flying mounts, and LFD teleporting is a fine solution for that. I don't know how pre-60 dungeon quests work these days, if it's like WotLK where the giver is just inside the portal. Maybe they could put the giver outside of the portal instead, so that you have to travel there at least once by yourself to get the quests, and see where the dungeon fits in with the world. Again, this would be Blizz narrowing the game a little, taking a choice away from the player (the choice to run dungeons without ever actually visiting the entrance) and forcing them to do something, but it's not unnecessarily tedious like rep grinds. It's basically just encouraging a little more map exploration.
Post by
Adamsm
The quests to run into the dungeons still exist; but since it's easier to just wait till you get it, then turn it in at that point, seems to be the best option at this time.
And honestly...there isn't anything at all to keep people from going to the entrance of the instances if they are in the area. The only ones that are a pain to get to is Stocks and Ragefire; everything else you can go to whenever you want.
Post by
Dilbo
These are just a few reasons why this part of the game shouldn't exist. Granted you can still have fun with the game and it isn't that much of a game changer, but it puts a dent in people's motivation or need to do any but queue. Needs to go back to the way it was in The Burning Crusade when the world felt much larger and I was almost never in the capital cities. It would be like taking away a crutch from people, they may be upset about it at first, but it would more beneficial in the long run.
I LFR/D is not a problem, it's that there's a general lack of incentive for top-level players to venture out into the world aside from ganking noobs or gathering mats. There is literally nothing worth doing out there once you hit the top level and I find this disappointing.
What I would suggest, rather than removing a useful feature of the game, is to give players incentives to go to an area and do stuff. They could introduce vanity items that you can only get by completing special top-tier quests in areas from previous expansions, or you could get access to new weapons and armor with unique attributes. For example, they could have weapons that offer elemental damage / healing / movement speed bonuses for completing quests in Nagrand, or you could get cool armor for your DK by doing quests in and around the plaguelands and the armor would give DK-specific benefits.
They could even add weapons and armor to the game that requires players to complete quests in old areas of the game, where these weapons and armor change baseline abilities and improves them. An example would be a warrior getting an axe that, when equipped, upgrades mortal strike to "mortal smash" which would deal additional damage, have a higher chance to crit and simultaneously apply 3 stacks of sunder armor. The same weapon could be equipped by other 2H weapon classes which would alter and boost their primary attack. The ability upgrade would not be permanent and requires the special weapon to be equipped, so with that in mind, the weapon should "level up" as the player does like heirloom items do.
Right now the problem with World of Warcraft is that it's more like "Area of Warcraft" because once a new expac comes out, all of the old content is rendered irrelevant and is little more than a stepping stone for people leveling up. I say keep the old zones relevant while leveling AND at max level. The fixation on raids and dungeons as the primary form of advancement for this game is outdated, meaning that they should turn the development efforts to the WORLD of the game rather than isolated instances.
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