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WoD: Balanced storyline for both factions?
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Post by
Skreeran
I'm still seeing Thrall having a massive part of the expansion.I'm gonna agree with Rank, but we won't know until we know.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Thrall was shoved down our throats, there is no doubt.
Do you see Tirion Killstelaing the Lich King?
No, he fights the lich king alongside you after breaking frostmourne, heck most of the time you deal the last blow.
Post by
Rankkor
Do you see Tirion Killstelaing the Lich King?
Hmm yes. We fight the lich king and he killed us. All of us. Then Tirion shattered frostmourne and finished off the fight. We get ressed but canonically the one who killed the lich king was Tirion, just the same way as the official killer of Illidan was Maiev.
And you haven't responded to my little wager. what's up? worried you're not as right as you believe?
Post by
Lordplatypus
No, it's just that I'm a blacksmith
Can't really offer anything comparable to a pet.
Post by
Rankkor
you could easily buy a semi-expensive pet and offer it as a counterpart. something akin to a Son of Animus, or even a pierre of your own. We still have at the very least 8+ months before the expansion goes live, and another year and a half to see the story unfold on the main zones and future content patches. We will only make the trade at the very end of the expansion, when all is said and done, if Thrall had a larger role than everyone else, or if he didn't. And if the Alliance had sufficient focus or they didn't.
If we're doing this, we may as well establish a set of rules we can both agree with. From my side, in order for you to win, Thrall needs to have been a full front row and center protagonist. Just him showing up for a few quests wont count. After all, Thrall showed up for 2 quests in MoP (The liberation of the Echo Isles, and the 5.3 horde event when we defend sen'jin village, and retake razor hill) but he was nowhere near protagonist status, nor was he the center of the expansion.
So if in WoD thrall ends up having a simple involvement with the story from the horde side but nothing too major or taking over the spotlight, you lose. Otherwise, I lose. To make it a lot more fair to you, you can also win if the alliance as a whole takes a backseat on the major events. If all the storylines revolve around the player-horde and the alliance has a minor presence, then I won't give you a pierre pet but will give you a different pet, and an admission of being in the wrong.
On the other hand, if the alliance gets a majority, or equal share, of the spotlight, if the draenei are indeed the driving force spearheading the attack against the Iron Horde, and Thrall's role is not as major as you seem to think, then I win.
Are these rules acceptable?
Since cross-realm gold trade is not an option, a simple pet exchange will have to do. Its a simple friendly(ish) competition, I'm a good sportsman, old enough to admit I don't know everything, and graceful enough to accept when I'm wrong. I expect the same courtesy on your behalf. Assuming that's not too much to ask.
Post by
Adamsm
Well....
1. *!@#, a Sylvanas sub plot.
2. Jaina stuff...bleh.
3. Anduin Stuff, Woot!.
4 and most !@#$ing important: And -- I'm going to throw out a juicy little tidbit -- things are not so great with her and Kalecgos.#$%^ YES!
Post by
morginar
1. *!@#, a Sylvanas sub plot.
Sounds kind of nice, she isn't that common sight in the game as of late, nor in the expanded universe in general. Hope we get to see that anti-hero dark ranger I liked in wc3 and not some mustache twirling.
2. Jaina stuff...bleh.
3. Anduin Stuff, Woot!.
Double Bleh!
4 and most !@#$ing important: And -- I'm going to throw out a juicy little tidbit -- things are not so great with her and Kalecgos.#$%^ YES!
Mother of a eight leged horse YES!
and we're going to see a lot of Tyrande.
If damsel in distres or carpet for some human, I'll vomit out my liver, if badass military, religius and political leader with 10k year experiance. Sweet.
Post by
Rankkor
1. *!@#, a Sylvanas sub plot.
Wait, wait wait, what? you don't like it? dude you should be happy about this. Why? because it will address what will happen with gilneas, and what sort of reparations (if any) the forsaken need to give to the alliance, given that they (along with the orcs) where the ones who caused the most damage in the war.
For those who actually wanted her to get any form of comeuppance, this should be your call to get the confetti out.
1. *!@#, a Sylvanas sub plot.
Sounds kind of nice, she isn't that common sight in the game as of late, nor in the expanded universe in general.
Hope we get to see that anti-hero dark ranger I liked in wc3
and not some mustache twirling.
I wish we had that character back but I sincerely doubt it. After all the crap she's pulled, her chances of going back to that place are now lower than ever. From using valks to forcefully raise others into undeath, using the blight when everyone told her to not use it, kidnapping people and brainwashing them (I'm talking about koltira) having her troops attacking civilians during the occupation of Gilneas (completely unacceptable, while I think the invasion was justified, the treatment of civilians was just unacceptable) re-corrupting the lands that the argent crusade worked so hard to cleanse, and those are the tip of the iceberg.
Her shot at being that awesome anti-hero ranger from war3 are slim to none man =/ She's a future raid boss and I'm not even gonna be surprised when it happens. Ditto for jaina, the way she looked like a female Grima Wormtounge during the ending cinematic did NOT escaped my eyes.
2. Jaina stuff...bleh.
Unless it involves her head separated from her shoulders, or her being ho' slapped out of her position as leader of the Kirin Tor, or her releasing the hostages she's taken, then I don't really give a crap about her.
3. Anduin Stuff, Woot!.
Awesome :P I love that kid.
4 and most !@#$ing important: And -- I'm going to throw out a juicy little tidbit -- things are not so great with her and Kalecgos.#$%^ YES!
ohh.my.god.
lets keep the fingers crossed bro' lets keep the fingers crossed.
and we're going to see a lot of Tyrande.
If damsel in distres or carpet for some human, I'll vomit out my liver, if badass military, religius and political leader with 10k year experiance. Sweet.
She is female. Therefore her only job in the story is to either be killed off, go evil, be the damsel for some guy, or fade into obscurity. I think its sufficiently clear this is the only way blizzard EVER develops their characters. And I wont believe otherwise unless I see drastic changes in the way female characters are handled. Come on man look at what they did to Zaela. By far one of the best characters they've ever made, and now reduced to Garrosh's little she-dog.
FOR SHAME!!!!!!!!!!
I just have this feeling that Thrall is going to be the view point character for the book for several reasons: 1) To show him taking power as the new Orc leader 2) Probably to have some grief over what Garrosh did and 3).....He's Golden's pet, nearly as much as Metzen's.
Thrall was the deus ex machina to hold off Jaina in Tides of War; had he not been there, she would have sunk Ogrimmar and Durotar.
And it's not that big of a stretch, especially considering how Blizzard feels about Thrall, and how Golden does.
We'll have to wait, but I'm putting in a prediction that he will be a major character in the book, and will end up a major character come Warlords.
Sorry bro', I believe you owe me a few coppers BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I reserve this video for special moments. This is one of them.
Enjoy.
Through a very slight clever manipulation, poor Baine is stuck defending Garrosh Hellscream.
Gah :S he has to defend the guy WHO MURDERED HIS FATHER? Insensitive doesn't even begin to describe that move.
One of the really cool things that we are going to be doing is that
we're going to be using the bronze dragonflight's abilities to literally go back in time as a display
. To see the actual events, to see these big moments -- and so will the jury, and so will everybody assembled to watch this. That's how we get some of the action in there, is by visiting these pivotal moments in history, particularly that dealt with Garrosh.
So there can be no lies, there can be no witness saying something -- this is the absolute truth, this is exactly what happened.
O_O ohh boy, are you wondering what I'm wondering? Ohh yes, I certainly hope they take advantage of this to finally clear out once and for all if the sunreavers really WERE innocent in the theft of the divine bell.
I'm giddy with anticipation.
Post by
Adamsm
Wait, wait wait, what? you don't like it? dude you should be happy about this. Why? because it will address what will happen with gilneas, and what sort of reparations (if any) the forsaken need to give to the alliance, given that they (along with the orcs) where the ones who caused the most damage in the war.
For those who actually wanted her to get any form of comeuppance, this should be your call to get the confetti out.Not from what they were saying...I have a bad feeling about that plot line.
Also Rank, read the section about Thrall...I have a feeling that it is going to take up a few chapters. Also, I was right about the Grief in regards to Garrosh:Thrall has been down a long road over the past couple of years - do you think he's holding onto guilt about putting Garrosh in this role in the first place?
Thrall gets to testify. And that's all I'm going to say.
Post by
Skreeran
Honestly, I'm expecting that Thrall isn't going to have a huge part. I think Blizzard has been trying to overcompensate for overusing him in Cataclysm by barely showing him now. We saw him all of, what, two time in Mists?
Post by
Rankkor
Also Rank, read the section about Thrall...I have a feeling that it is going to take up a few chapters.
taking a few chapters =/= Star and centerpiece of the whole frigging book.
Honestly, I'm expecting that Thrall isn't going to have a huge part. I think Blizzard has been trying to overcompensate for overusing him in Cataclysm by barely showing him now. We saw him all of, what, two time in Mists?
^
Despite what people think of him, he IS a major figure in the lore, so unless they kill him off, don't expect him to pull a houdini on us and never show up again, he's gonna show from time to time, but showing himself from time to time is NOT the same as taking over the spotlight. Just because he gets a few chapters in "War Crimes" doesn't mean he's gonna be the protagonist. Much the same way as he had a few chapters in The Shattering and in Tides of War but in neither was he the centerpiece (And I must reiterate that Krasus was the real one who stopped jaina, Thrall tried, failed, things got physical, and jaina kicked his ass)
Post by
RipperGand
Despite what people think of him, he IS a major figure in the lore, so unless they kill him off, don't expect him to pull a houdini on us and never show up again, he's gonna show from time to time, but showing himself from time to time is NOT the same as taking over the spotlight. Just because he gets a few chapters in "War Crimes" doesn't mean he's gonna be the protagonist. Much the same way as he had a few chapters in The Shattering and in Tides of War but in neither was he the centerpiece (And I must reiterate that Krasus was the real one who stopped jaina, Thrall tried, failed, things got physical, and jaina kicked his ass)
Thrall barely arrived in time and tried to dissuade her from committing the horrific act, but Jaina ignored his pleas. She sent the elemental wave on its way and it is all he can do just to stalemate her water with the help of the wind; he quickly realizes that it is a wonder that he is able to keep the water back at all. Enraged, Jaina attempts to kill Thrall with an arcane blast; he manages to deflect a fireball and cleverly uses the wave itself to duck under a pillar of fire, but doing all this, while holding back the wave and trying to talk Jaina down (...)
A summary in case you didn't read Tides of War. Thrall is a Mary Sue character who can hold the world together (literally) and do stuff like this. If I saw Thrall die this expansion, it'd be too soon. And if he took Garrosh with him, that'd also be great. This is the only part where I can't remain neutral, I'm tired of Thrall, he's been pestering around for too long. I like WoW lore from the perspective of a reader and not of a participant, and Thrall is still that character who just keeps showing up again and again, and that makes you lose interest in the book.
Maybe we can say the same about Jaina. But at least Jaina progressed, suffered psychological changes, changed her alignment to lawful evil, acquired new points of view, lost her kingdom, ascended inside the ranks of the Kirin Tor, and ceased to be the benevolent character she was in WoTLK; she's full of ups-and-downs.
Thrall had his changes, yes, but they only made him super Mary Sue. He needs to go, cut off the bad limb before the rot spreads to the rest of the tree.
A final aspect: I foresee Jaina and the Kirin Tor being a raid instance, because of some random rebellious attitude of hers.
Post by
Lordplatypus
If the slyvannas story doesn't involve her going back to her appointed cell in the afterlife, it's boring already.
my thoughts on ms. holier than thou moon cultist are almost all negative, she's a xenophobic, quiver-happy lunatic that cares too much about trees.
Honestly, having her as the prosecution is probably gonna simply be because garrosh needs someone who's stupid enough for him to politically outmaneuver.
What did garrosh do to ashenvale that can even compare to the crimes commited to the very land of theramoore and gilneas?
NOTHING.
The people who have any claim to being the prosecutor are in line
1: Jaina Proudmoore
2: Genn Greymane
3: Varian Wrynn
4: Taran Zhu (The hypocritical ass-bear's precious garden got black painted on it)
5: Vol'Jin
Tyrande got a few trees of her precious forest cut down, Jaina got HER CITY REMOVED FROM EXISTANCE IN ALL TIMELINES genn gets HIS COUNTRY TURNED INTO AN UNDEAD WASTE.
Tyrande has nothing on that.
and don't even @$I@%!@(#&$@!_)$*@!_%*!(@&%#*$&*@#(@*$*@^&$(&%)(!*#)(@#()&$*!()^%)%&#*$^!#*!&#!)%(@^)&($&)@(#!)(%&*#(%)#&^_@!#!&#*^$*(%@%*@(*&$@*(&$@)(*ing dare call slyvannas an anti-hero. (Yes, i actually swore for a full minute when people started acting like slyvannas was at all anything but the psychotic offspring of satan and hitler).
The anti heroes of WC3 were Arthas Menethil and Othmar Garithos. Slyvannas was flat out evil, sending her rangers on suicide missions, being a massive $%^&, (BLAH BLAH, WE WIN BECAUSE WE ELF BLAH BLAH), acting like a demanding !@#$% even when the other guy has her at his mercy (I DESERVE A QUICK DEATH). and Arthas saying "Hell no woman, after all this *!@# you've put me through, you don't deserve dying. Then we have her stab people in the back throughout her campaign, work with a demon, and generally murder everything in sight in a powerhungry killing spree.
Post by
Adamsm
Othmar GarithosAs if; he was a power mad, sad little man, who hated the other races under his command and wanted nothing more then to wipe them all out to make himself look better.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Really?
Garithos was the last hope for lordaeron that he knew of, and yes he was racist, people are flawed.
George Washington had slaves. did that make him evil?
He honestly wanted to reclaim lordaeron from the undead, and he fought the legion to take it back while slyvannas turtled like a coward. (It's far more effective to have Garithos and his knights make hit and run attacks, with mortar support than for slyvannas to attack).
Post by
morginar
I take it Lordplatypus don't like elves... living, undead, alliace or horde irrelevant.
Arthas Menethil
Stratholme was more or less his only anti-hero move.
Post that is was path of evil, and quite willingly so. (Sinking ships, killing mercs, frostmourne, vengance on malganis etc.)
Before that it was like anakin before darth vader.
Slyvannas was flat out evil, sending her rangers on suicide missions
Sylvanas* Think Sylvan...
And was it not Othmar who did suicide missons?
Sylvanas in life tried her best to halt the undead at all cost (including her life) as she sent word to silvermoon. She did seem to care for her rangers in the Arthas book.
Really?
Garithos was the last hope for lordaeron that he knew of, and yes he was racist, people are flawed.
George Washington had slaves. did that make him evil?
He honestly wanted to reclaim lordaeron from the undead, and he fought the legion to take it back while slyvannas turtled like a coward. (It's far more effective to have Garithos and his knights make hit and run attacks, with mortar support than for slyvannas to attack).
Othmar Garithos, did the same error as Stareye in WoA. His racism made him unable to work with the other races and made the alliance suffer greatly. His bigest contribute to the war was his own demise.
Tyrande got a few trees of her precious forest cut down
Ashenvale on fire, civilans that lived in peace got killed at the hand of the warsong. Villages burned to ash. Azshara teraformed into a abomination.
Jaina got HER CITY REMOVED FROM EXISTANCE IN ALL TIMELINES
Thats one city and the civilans mostly got away. And Theramore did ask for it with all those troops in the barrens and Camp T.
genn gets HIS COUNTRY TURNED INTO AN UNDEAD WASTE.
No, it's just a ruined waste, the alliance have abandoned that front at the end of the silverpine questline. The life of a daugther is more precious than Gilneas, and I can understand that.
And Genn is a worgen, He wont get any lore for a loooooooooooooooong time. Just look how long it took for the Dreanai, or look at the gnomes.
Post by
Lordplatypus
Sylvanas in life tried her best to halt the undead at all cost (including her life) as she sent word to silvermoon. She did seem to care for her rangers in the Arthas book.
"Arrows in her quiver"
this contrasted heavily by arthas, who regretted having to abandon various undead too damaged to move.
Yes, a
souless death knight
was a more caring leader than slyvannas before she hit the banshee queen gig.
That's saying something.
Ashenvale on fire,
Boo hoo, fire. It's a fricking forest, wildfires do the same thing.
Othmar Garithos, did the same error as Stareye in WoA. His racism made him unable to work with the other races and made the alliance suffer greatly. His bigest contribute to the war was his own demise.
All the blood elves needed to do was a delaying action, and as we saw, garithos came back for them after beating the main force of undead. Kael'thas being both incapable of any strategy other than "charge" and being an narcisstic idiot, ragequit and pressed the naga button.
civilans that lived in peace got killed at the hand of the warsong.
small fries compared to the massacres in gilneas and theramoore.
Thats one city and the civilans mostly got away. And Theramore did ask for it with all those troops in the barrens and Camp T.
*Resists urge to rant on how Camp Taurajo was a perfectly valid military target, and the Barrens were once again, a perfectly legitimate action.* Just don't go there, just
don't
.
No, it's just a ruined waste, the alliance have abandoned that front at the end of the silverpine questline. The life of a daugther is more precious than Gilneas, and I can understand that.
What was the trigger-happy blighting of the place, i'm suprsied people can even live there. I don't see darnassus blighted nearly to death.
And Genn is a worgen, He wont get any lore for a loooooooooooooooong time. Just look how long it took for the Dreanai, or look at the gnomes.
Sadly true.
EDIT
I take it Lordplatypus don't like elves... living, undead, alliace or horde irrelevant.
There's a few factors.
A: I automatically hate how people always treat the "I speak for the trees" type as good.
B: The whole "Do jack!@#$ in WCII until the orcs arrive then blame the alliance for NOT SAVING THEM ENOUGH".
C: The Night Elves are xenophobes who kill things for touching trees, and more or less had the entire population of ashenvale under their thumbs tyranny style and see nothing wrong with it.
Post by
morginar
"Arrows in her quiver"
And Sylvanas died at age 20, and defended quel'thalas at the age of 5 with the title ranger general.
That story is soooo bloody canon.
this contrasted heavily by arthas, who regretted having to abandon various undead too damaged to move.
Yes, a souless death knight was a more caring leader than slyvannas before she hit the banshee queen gig.
That's saying something.
He made a bridge out of his minions and left them to taint a river....
And it's still Sylvanas...
Boo hoo, fire. It's a fricking forest, wildfires do the same thing.
It's more like Garrosh expanding the barrens. (Save the rainforest.)
All the blood elves needed to do was a delaying action, and as we saw, garithos came back for them after beating the main force of undead. Kael'thas being both incapable of any strategy other than "charge" and being an narcisstic idiot, ragequit and pressed the naga button.
You are out numbered and your army got striped from soliders you need, you lack boats and you have to take down a island. And he was reluctant on taking naga aid. It was more of take naga or die.
small fries compared to the massacres in gilneas and theramoore.
Theramore was mostly soliders.
*Resists urge to rant on how Camp Taurajo was a perfectly valid military target, and the Barrens were once again, a perfectly legitimate action.* Just don't go there, just don't.
Theramore was also a perfectly legitimate military target. As the alliance used it to deposit troops in the barrens and durotar.
What was the trigger-happy blighting of the place, i'm suprsied people can even live there. I don't see darnassus blighted nearly to death.
Geneve doesn't exist in wow, and neither does the laws that came with the place.
And using garrosh is like saying that all that use fel are super evil and warlocks should be exterminated.
A: I automatically hate how people always treat the "I speak for the trees" type as good.
B: The whole "Do jack!@#$ in WCII until the orcs arrive then blame the alliance for NOT SAVING THEM ENOUGH".
C: The Night Elves are xenophobes who kill things for touching trees, and more or less had the entire population of ashenvale under their thumbs tyranny style and see nothing wrong with it.
Boy you must love keal'thas.
A: Malfurion is not popular.
B: Not entering other nations war and conflict is something natural.
C: Tyranny? Are you refering to Cenarius or Tyrande?
Post by
Skreeran
I still like Sylvanas.
Post by
morginar
I still like Sylvanas.
I do too but I don't.
I like Sylvanas, not the evil queen, dark lord of mordor and necromantic overlord Windrunner.
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