This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
What's gonna happen to garrosh post-mists?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Adamsm
If you're going to have someone get corrupted, then you plan it in advance and make a proper narrative for it instead of retconning it in.Which again, they did; Stormrage, Nightmare Lord(Xavius) playing on Fandral's grief over the loss of his son during the original War of Shifting Sand, placing the Corrupted Bark onto Teldrassil and using the Morrowgrain to poison Malfurion...also, in regards to the Nightmare Lord? N'Zoth made him....you know, the same Old God that had been backing Deathwing, Ragnaros and all the rest so there is the connection.
Post by
yzq85
The Elemental Lords are chaotic by nature. Fire burns, the winds blow, that sort of stuff. Ragnaros would gladly burn Nordrassil even without the Old Gods' blessing. Also, Fandral never forgave his side for his son's death during the War of the Shifting Sands.
And as for Jaina, her character trait (to me) is advocating the wrong thing at the wrong time and place. She advocated for peace when peace is not viable, and advocated war when war is not viable. She was never a politician, and I can only hope that Dalaran endures another calamity before she realises that it's not only her ideals that matter.
As for Varian and Orcs, the fact that he can talk to Thrall in a relatively civil manner after the Siege says a lot. If anything else, Stormwind needs to recuperate. Westfall needs dire attention after what happened during Cata, and the Alliance IS getting exhausted.
Post by
Izichial
If you're going to have someone get corrupted, then you plan it in advance and make a proper narrative for it instead of retconning it in.Which again, they did; Stormrage, Nightmare Lord(Xavius) playing on Fandral's grief over the loss of his son during the original War of Shifting Sand, placing the Corrupted Bark onto Teldrassil and using the Morrowgrain to poison Malfurion...also, in regards to the Nightmare Lord? N'Zoth made him....you know, the same Old God that had been backing Deathwing, Ragnaros and all the rest so there is the connection.
Was that ingame? I don't remember anything about that. ;o
If it wasn't ingame, I maintain they failed in explaining it. If it was, I have nothing to blame but my memory.
(but we're getting a wee bit offtopic)
Post by
yzq85
The quest "Tragedy and Family" touches on how Fandral and Leyara are related, but didn't go into the details of how Valstann died the first time, and how Fandral's mind totally gave way after Furion destroyed the illusion.
Post by
maorel
is there a place i can read about the whole history? something short that will roughly explain? or some vids?
Post by
digitalsoda
I liked him. He was a man that knew how to get stuff done. I also liked how he was gung-ho about fighting the alliance, bringing horde back to its roots.. This bff stuff with King Whatshisface sickens me.
Post by
Rankkor
As for redemption, I don't care how much the world burns for it, he doesn't deserve it. I'm tired of him and I want him gone.
Yep.
And adams you gotta admit they did the plot exposition pretty badly in cata. Anyone who didn't read "The Shattering" "Wolfheart" and "Twilight of the Aspects" as well as the short story regarding the dragonsoul on the main website would be VERY lost as extremely important and key elements of the plot were detailed exclusively in those books and not at all in the actual game.
you know, stuff like why is magni a statue, why is the council of three hammers formed, why is cairne dead, why are the grimtotem full enemies now, why is garrosh warchief, why is thrall suddenly with a girlfriend, why is kalec an aspect, why is wyrmrest temple destroyed, why is benedictus evil, and a list so long it would take me at least 16 min to go through it. These are just off the top of my head.
80% of the plot in cata was not conveyed through the game, but rather through expanded universe material. And that's NEVER a good way to move a story in a game.
its why I'm so impressed with MoP, I mean the whole s***tstorm with the divine bell could had easily made a book, but they chose to convey that in the game instead. The only books in MoP (Tides of War and Shadows of the Horde) can both be skipped without becoming completely lost. They expand a lot but if you miss them, you still have a good grasp of what's going on.
Post by
skumbananer
Something that would be awesome if he somehow redeemed himself is if he doesn't die, but instead gets to work as a grunt-guard in some obscure leveling zone like Shadowmoon Valley.
Post by
yzq85
I liked him. He was a man that knew how to get stuff done. I also liked how he was gung-ho about fighting the alliance, bringing horde back to its roots.. This bff stuff with King Whatshisface sickens me.
The Horde's roots are peaceful expansion and exploration. See the Bonus Campaign for WC3: Frozen Throne - The Founding of Durotar.
BC was already a big offender with the Sunwell Trilogy. Without it, I can safely say that players won't know why Aneeva was so important during the raid on the Sunwell.
Yeah, for Cata, you have to at least do your own research via Wowpedia (or other lore sources) if you didn't read the tie-in novels. Another factor was that Deathwing underwent alot of lore developments between his last appearance in WC2 and Cata, a lot of which is found only in external material.
Post by
Adamsm
The Horde's roots are peaceful expansion and exploration. See the Bonus Campaign for WC3: Frozen Throne - The Founding of Durotar.No, that's the Frostwolves; a large majority of the other clans were just like Garrosh before the start of corruption from Gul'dan and the Shadow Council.
Post by
Rankkor
The Horde's roots are peaceful expansion and exploration. See the Bonus Campaign for WC3: Frozen Throne - The Founding of Durotar.No, that's the Frostwolves; a large majority of the other clans were just like Garrosh before the start of corruption from Gul'dan and the Shadow Council.
Wrong dude. As seen in Rise of the Horde, the orcs were a hunter society, they weren't warmongering conquerors, they were perfectly happy to coexist with the many disparate races of draenor. They only started the war with the draenei and the drastic change on their society when they were tricked into thinking the draenei were preparing to do the same to them.
The true roots of orc society is on exploration, coexistence, hunting, comuning with the wilds, and revering the elements and the ancestors. Garrosh doesn't represent what true orcs were or should be. He never has, he never will.
Post by
Adamsm
The Horde's roots are peaceful expansion and exploration. See the Bonus Campaign for WC3: Frozen Throne - The Founding of Durotar.No, that's the Frostwolves; a large majority of the other clans were just like Garrosh before the start of corruption from Gul'dan and the Shadow Council.
Wrong dude. As seen in Rise of the Horde, the orcs were a hunter society, they weren't warmongering conquerors, they were perfectly happy to coexist with the many disparate races of draenor. They only started the war with the draenei and the drastic change on their society when they were tricked into thinking the draenei were preparing to do the same to them.
The true roots of orc society is on exploration, coexistence, hunting, comuning with the wilds, and revering the elements and the ancestors. Garrosh doesn't represent what true orcs were or should be. He never has, he never will.
And Strength above all else: Saw that very clear in
A Warrior Made
; Draka was seen as a dishonour, and had she been born in any other clan but the Frostwolves, she would have been drowned at birth.
Garrosh is the closest to actually have been raised as a 'true' Orc we've seen in a very long time. All the Orc clans we saw in Rise were seen through the eyes of the Frostwolves, who were not a normal clan.
Post by
Rankkor
The Horde's roots are peaceful expansion and exploration. See the Bonus Campaign for WC3: Frozen Throne - The Founding of Durotar.No, that's the Frostwolves; a large majority of the other clans were just like Garrosh before the start of corruption from Gul'dan and the Shadow Council.
Wrong dude. As seen in Rise of the Horde, the orcs were a hunter society, they weren't warmongering conquerors, they were perfectly happy to coexist with the many disparate races of draenor. They only started the war with the draenei and the drastic change on their society when they were tricked into thinking the draenei were preparing to do the same to them.
The true roots of orc society is on exploration, coexistence, hunting, comuning with the wilds, and revering the elements and the ancestors. Garrosh doesn't represent what true orcs were or should be. He never has, he never will.
And Strength above all else
Strength doesn't equate a thirst of destruction or warmongering, or a desire to conquer everything on sight. Again, prior to corruption, the orcs lived for centuries on draenor without attacking anyone else. Except the ogres and that's because the ogres were hostile to everyone due to the influence of the gronn. And even then they never hunted the ogres to extinction.
they valued strength yes, and physical prowess, weakness was seen as a crime, but this doesn't mean being hostile to everyone, and picking up fights with non-agressors, or conquer every other civilization under your rule. Which is why I once again state that garrosh has never represented what true orcs were or should be. He never has, he never will.
Post by
Adamsm
The orcs were hostile to each other though; the clans each had their own specific area, but the other clans weren't really invited in. Saw that in both Rise of the Horde and Warrior Made; heck the yearly gathering of the clans had a 'no weapon' rule after all...and you don't really put something like that into play if there wasn't a good reason.
And the Draenei saw the Orcs as beneath them, or a far younger race, and other then the Frostwolves, the other Orc clans had nothing to do with them.
Post by
Rankkor
As I said, they weren't all buddy-buddy love love mushy rainbow treehugger like the tauren, but they also weren't bloodthirsty warmongers. They were simply isolationists. Each clan had their own land, and none intruded in the lands of the other. They traded with one another, and yearly they met to exchange customs and festivities, so I don't really see that as being "hostile".
Unfriendly? yes, but not hostile.
Garrosh is not unfriendly, he's downright a psycho.
Post by
yzq85
The Mag'har, by definition, are a minority. They escaped Legion corruption due to the quarantine in place while they had "red pox".
"Aside from engaging in some limited trade, the draenei and orcs regarded one another with respect but kept mostly to themselves." The draenei are not an arrogant people; I take exception to the "beneath them" comment.
Thrall founded Durotar explicitly as a break from Orc society, even before its corruption. He wanted to keep the good traditions and try to introduce new ones.
Post by
Adamsm
The draenei are not an arrogant people; I take exception to the "beneath them" comment.You can take exception all you want...but that fact is, the Draenei named the planet after themselves, considered the Orcs to be children compared to them, and didn't really mingle with the other races of Draenor.
Thrall founded Durotar explicitly as a break from Orc society, even before its corruption. He wanted to keep the good traditions and try to introduce new ones.Thrall is still an a typical orc;
they had a good know your lore yesterday
.
Post by
Rankkor
The draenei are not an arrogant people; I take exception to the "beneath them" comment.You can take exception all you want...but that fact is, the Draenei named the planet after themselves, considered the Orcs to be children compared to them, and didn't really mingle with the other races of Draenor
Hmmm nope.
Sorry bro' but you're mistaken. The draenei are neither haughty nor arrogant. They named the planet after themselves because they were the first sentient specie to live there, everyone else slowly evolved with the pass of the millennia. The sole reason they didn't mingled with the orcs, is because the orcs refused, as I said before, the orc clans were isolationists, they weren't friendly to others, but they weren't hostile either, they simply kept to themselves.
As soon as an orc (Durotan and Orgrim) displayed curiosity and eagerness to interact with the draenei, they gladly welcomed and treated them as guests of honors, repeating what I just told you, that they never really traded with the orcs, or shared their technology, or magic, or resources, because it was the orcs who wished to keep away.
And you already know that every other race in draenor wasn't much better. Ogres were brutes under the tyrannical rule of the Gronn. Said Gronn were vicious monsters that enjoyed causing torment to those weaker than them, the Arrakoa dabbled in dark magic and never got below their high peaks, and most other life in draenor wasn't really sentient. The ethereals only arrived long after the planet became outland.
So for those reasons the draenei never interacted with anyone, rather than arrogance or haughtiness.
As I said before, prior to corruption, orcs were still fierce, devoted to battle, and despising weakness, but they were NOT an aggresive race, nor a warmonger race, they actually respected, and lived in peace with other sentient species, the only one they attacked on sight were the ogres and for good reasons. And even then, some orc tribes mated with the ogres rather than fight them (ew) taking the old saying "make love, not war" to its most extreme literal interpretation.
Post by
yzq85
"....draenei settled the planet and named it "Exile's Refuge" in Eredun: "Draenor". The orcs did not have a name for the place, other than "world", but eventually adopted the Eredun term."
Just want to throw the factoid here.
Also, I find it weird that a people in exile and on the run from their own who had turned over to evil can still be deemed "haughty and arrogant".
Post by
scook999
My take on what will happen:
The Alliance now has a wild card that hasn't been checked, and chaos will run freely with the dogs of war. A mana bomb dropped by a certain Horde Warchief not only turned Jaina's hair white, but it has altered her thought processes. As seen in the final video of Garrosh's downfall, Jaina is less that enthralled with King Wrynn's handling of events. She seems to have her mind made up on a course of action.
That action, will be a clandestine raid to pull Garrosh out of Pandaria, and put him into a position to assassinate Varian Wrynn. She will pull strings to be a 3rd party so there will be no direct connection to her. What does this achieve? We get a two-for out of this; it shows the Horde is fractious enough so there is no stable leader in charge, and either a) it might convince Varian to finish the Horde, or b) his replacement will be more amenable to destroying the Horde.
It would be within her power to make this a one way trip for Garrosh, as he will die either way in this attempt, as Jaina can show up at the last second and blast the ex-Warchief into Orcy Pebbles. Her tracks are covered, and more derision exists in the shaky world of Azeroth.
You can go a lot of ways after this, Jaina "listens to the little voices in her head", or she contacts other forces less than happy with the status quo. Heck, she can make use of her affinity with frost elementals and can place blame on rogue dark shaman in attacks on townships throughout the world.
Heck, this path can make way for the rise of Anduin, and come to a showdown in his belief in Jaina as a friend, and Velen, and his belief in Anduin. This will also give a wonderful feeling for a rather large and growing faction that think Jaina Proundmoore needs to be on the wrong end of a raid.
My two cents.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
