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Post by
lonewarrior
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Um....no, no you wouldn't.
Oh you have to do better then that.
Explain why my original vanilla CD wouldn't contain the old Azeroth and version of the game.
Because the vast majority of the content of the game isn't stored clientside- it's stored serverside. You would have the vanilla version of the client program, but it wouldn't include any of the creatures, any of the items, any of the quests, or any of the character information. It wouldn't include the world itself. The client program pulls all of that information from the server, and while it will cache some of this information after you have encountered it in the game, it wouldn't be enough of it to actually reconstruct the game without the server, and it wouldn't happen unless you were connected to a live version of the server type you wanted.
That's an explanation. Got it...thank you. :)
Post by
kellbyb
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
Um....no, no you wouldn't.
Oh you have to do better then that.
Explain why my original vanilla CD wouldn't contain the old Azeroth and version of the game.
Unless the file size has more than doubled since vanilla, there would be at least ~11.5 GB's. I'd like to see you fit that onto an old CD-ROM.
Post by
Azrile
The devs have already said it will never happen,and could never happen because they DO NOT have some box with the old code in it. There isn´t a ´classic´ button they can push and make the game go back to like it was in 2005. In order to make a classic server, they would have to go in an alter every little bit of the code, every spell, talent trees, the maps etc from the current code..
Just take flight paths for example. They have no way of knowing right now, which flightpaths were there originally... they can´t just push a button and have all the new flightpaths disappear, and have all the old ones jump to their original positions. Same with graveyards.. They would have to manually go in and move graveyards and flightpaths... They would have to interview people and check sites like this one to even remember what all the spells were like, and then go in and program them all back to the way they were.
Just way too much work to test a theory that most of us think would fail anyway.
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
you have the original CLIENT. If you don´t understand how meaningless that is, then it is hard to have this conversation at all. Sorry, to be so blunt.
Post by
Nulgar
It's a pretty safe bet that blizz has an archive with a copy of every wow version that ever went live.
But the servers aren't just a bunch of code files, there's more to it, e.g. server architecture. Sure they'll backup the code, but that doesn't mean they could just compile a Vanilla server from that in an evening. The cost for getting stable Classic servers up and, most of all, running (even without any patches or bugfixes) over a prolonged period of time just won't be matched by the revenue it would create.
Unless the file size has more than doubled since vanilla, there would be at least ~11.5 GB's. I'd like to see you fit that onto an old CD-ROM.
Actually, it has. I can't remember the installation size during Vanilla, but during BC, it was around 10 GB.
Note that most of the game client's size comes from the models: landscape, buildings, NPCs, objects and of course armor/weapons.
Also, Vanilla came on 5 CDs. BC only had 3, I guess it didn't have the full client, only the BC data for the patch. WotLK already was 3 DVDs.
Post by
lonewarrior
The devs have already said it will never happen,and could never happen because they DO NOT have some box with the old code in it. There isn´t a ´classic´ button they can push and make the game go back to like it was in 2005. In order to make a classic server, they would have to go in an alter every little bit of the code, every spell, talent trees, the maps etc from the current code..
Just take flight paths for example. They have no way of knowing right now, which flightpaths were there originally... they can´t just push a button and have all the new flightpaths disappear, and have all the old ones jump to their original positions. Same with graveyards.. They would have to manually go in and move graveyards and flightpaths... They would have to interview people and check sites like this one to even remember what all the spells were like, and then go in and program them all back to the way they were.
Just way too much work to test a theory that most of us think would fail anyway.
I still have my original Vanilla CD.
If I had a new computer and download the game from that CD without any patching updates, I would have the original Vanilla version.
you have the original CLIENT. If you don´t understand how meaningless that is, then it is hard to have this conversation at all. Sorry, to be so blunt.
I meant to and should have posted my comment as a question about what would be on the original client disk.
I realized my mistake after Adamsm post which is why I asked him to provide a much better explanation then "no it doesn't".
A little late for me to edit it so I didn't. I'm as eager as the next guy to understand what is on that disk that I paid for.
Clarification was gracefully provided by ElhonnaDS two post back of yours.
Your post therefor falls into typical totally useless entry file.
You weren't being blunt, you were trying to be witty and failed...which is even worse.
But your post count did go up one so congratulations.
Post by
cephadex
Which is the entire point; the game wasn't better back then. Say what you will about the recent expansions, but they have been improving and making the game better and better.
I'm not certain how 'better' is used here. From my perspective and I think many other advocates of earlier versions of the game, 'better' is used to mean 'I enjoyed playing it more then than I do now.' 'Shatter the rose-colored glasses' implies that the game was not actually enjoyable, and rather that people just think it was better when they look back nostalgically. But I think there's more to it than that: the game was very addictive then, and it isn't anymore.
It would not have been so addictive if it were purely frustrating and annoying
. You enjoyed this sense of completion from the tasks you did.
I think it wasn't purely a grind-fest, because I remember that most people (with the exception being largely hardcore raiders - and these were not most players) enjoyed playing for the sake of playing, and there wasn't the general sentiment that the game only began once you reached max level. Playing below max level did not feel like "annoying work you have to get out of the way to just finish it already."
In saying this I'm not trying to imply the game has not been made better in terms of conveniences and improvements. I'm saying that regardless of conveniences, people generally don't "worship" the game like they once did. Maybe that's good for your life overall, haha. But it does show that it's not just nostalgic illusion that makes people say early versions were more enjoyable. I've not played for at least a couple of months because, well, I just don't feel the desire for it.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not certain how 'better' is used here.The fact they've done nothing but improve on what the game had been back in Vanilla?
From my perspective and I think many other advocates of earlier versions of the game, 'better' is used to mean 'I enjoyed playing it more then than I do now.'I do enjoy it more now; because it doesn't feel like the game is meant to be a second job, I don't feel 'bad' for not being able to see new content, and I like that I can do what I want in game even if my fellow guild mates aren't online.
'Shatter the rose-colored glasses' implies that the game was not actually enjoyable, and rather that people just think it was better when they look back nostalgically.Yes because it was so much fun to grind away for resist gear, it was so much fun to get trapped in a specific set of raids that you couldn't pass, it was so much fun to try to get that one drop out of Shattered Halls Heroic when it was next to impossible to find groups for that place...oh yeah /roll eyes
But I think there's more to it than that: the game was very addictive then, and it isn't anymore. It would not have been so addictive if it were purely frustrating and annoying. You enjoyed this sense of completion from the tasks you did. Just as I have my opinions, so do you; I know quite a few people who are still 'addicted' to the game after all.
I think it wasn't purely a grind-fest, because I remember that most people (with the exception being largely hardcore raiders - and these were not most players) enjoyed playing for the sake of playing, and there wasn't the general sentiment that the game only began once you reached max level. Playing below max level did not feel like "annoying work you have to get out of the way to just finish it already." Did you play in Vanilla? It's merely a question.
I'm saying that regardless of conveniences, people generally don't "worship" the game like they once did. Maybe that's good for your life overall, haha. But it does show that it's not just nostalgic illusion that makes people say early versions were more enjoyable.Oh no, it is nostalgic illusion; if the game reverted back to Vanilla or BC tomorrow, you'd see the same thing that happened with Cata happening, with lots of sub losses.
I've not played for at least a couple of months because, well, I just don't feel the desire for it.So you are bored with WoW, and that's fine; but bringing in Nostalgia servers more then likely wouldn't cause your desire to return.
Post by
murphmanfa
I would really like to play around with some of the old stuff from Back In The Day. Couple examples: the old instances, the group quests, and particularly the huge, world-spanning quest chains that had you going from Tanaris to Eastern Plaguelands and back again. As much of a pain in the ass as they were, I felt that they gave a real sense of scale to the world that you're in and traveling through and you felt like you were accomplishing something grand.
And old AV! Need I say more?
ALL THAT SAID.
I feel that the game has seen (mostly) constant improvement over the years. There was so much in vanilla that was broken or horrendously imbalanced. Raiding was a second job that took a long time, and required dozens of other people who were coordinated, dedicated, and weren't lag-prone. The professions were far more time-consuming than they are now. And the rep grinds and repeatable quests and turn-ins... ugh. If I never have to handle Morrowgrain again it'll be too soon. And despite the feeling of accomplishment for doing it, remember having to collect wartorn scraps for your Tier 3 sets?
The World of Warcraft is smaller now, and simpler. Quests generally don't take you outside of the zone that you get them in anymore, unless they're breadcrumbs to the next zone. You can level up to 60 entirely on one half of one continent. These are things that I dislike. But the gameplay, the balancing, the game itself in general, have all been improved so much that it would not be an advancement to go back to how it was, and being able to do so would lose its novelty fairly quickly.
I'll still sign most petitions to bring back old AV, though.
Post by
Adamsm
However, they also lost subs in Wrath as well, shortly after Trial came out.
Post by
voodoopimp
I find it amusing that people are trying to convince us that Vanilla and BC were so terrible.
Unfortunately for them the numbers show the opposite.
If you rank the expansions in order of growth in subscribers, you get :
1 Vanilla
2 BC
3 Wrath & MOP
Cata lost subscribers.
Nearly all the growth in this game came from Vanilla & BC so the evidence shows that these expansions were far from the terrible experiance that some would have us believe.
Unless of course we are supposed to believe that these subscribers paid every month for a game that they disliked so much.
Say it with me: Correlation does not imply causation.
For some reason you're assuming that game quality is the only factor in subscription growth. Obviously Vanilla had the greatest increase, it's easy when you're starting at zero. And in general the older expansions probably had more growth because the game was still establishing itself to an extent, whereas by now pretty much everyone who might be interested in playing has already at least heard of it so the only untapped market is kids who weren't old enough before. So maybe now more people are burning out or otherwise losing interest than are first hearing about it, and the popularity will decrease a bit until it reaches a new equilibrium.
Post by
Adamsm
So maybe now more people are burning out or otherwise losing interest than are first hearing about it, and the popularity will decrease a bit until it reaches a new equilibrium.
It's already doing that; MoP brought the subs back up to over 10 million after all.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I think that it's hard to evaluate how Vanilla WoW would be enjoyed today based on how many people enjoyed it when it was released, because gaming technology advances fairly quickly, and how good a game is when it comes out is always somewhat based on how it compares to its contemporaries.
I personally enjoyed Diablo 1 and 2. I played them to death, and so when I heard Diablo 3 was coming out, I was really excited. I didn't even finish the game once, though, before I got bored with it and stopped playing. What I realized was that when I had Diablo 1 and 2, those were pretty much the only games I had, other than some SNES games and the original Sims. So compared to everything else I was playing, these games were the best. Since then, I've played Wow, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, EQ2, etc. And so even though they'd advanced a lot from Diablo 2, I'd been playing so many games that in my opinion handled better, had more story, were more entertaining, involved more complex and diverse goals, and in general were much more appealing to me, that going back to a point and click, 2-3 button fighting style game which was mostly a never-ending loot grind just wasn't the same kind of fun that it used to be.
I have very fond memories of the Original Super Mario Brothers, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy IV(II US), Quest For Glory, Maniac Mansion, etc. I don't think that if I went back and played them now (which I totally could do), I would enjoy them anywhere near a much as I did, because the games I play have gotten so much more visually vibrant, thematically mature, story driven and mechanically fun, that these just wouldn't feel the same as they used to. I think that I enjoyed them as much for when they were as for what they were.
I am sure that there are people who, if they booted up Maniac Mansion right now, would have as much fun as they used to when it was new. But I don't think it's most people, or that it would hold its appeal for hours like it did the first time. I think that, given the cheaper production qualities of older games with current technologies, if they were capable of holding an audience's interest against the modern competition, we'd see a lot more in that style because they'd be much more profitable. But we don't often see them, and I don't know a lot of people who do just want to play vanilla who also regularly play the other games they grew up with rather than the new stuff coming out.
I think that the sharpest fall they had in wow subscriptions came in Cata, which seems to be the same time they tried to steer the game back towards that more difficult road- they required CC and strategy in the dungeons, they went back to beginning to raid in blues rather than easy epics off the bat, etc. And people stopped playing.
I am sure that there are people who would really enjoy a Vanilla server, and would enjoy the slower, more difficult, less user-friendly game they started with. But I think that for many it would be a novelty, and would only run so far on nostalgia before people moved on to other games, or went back to the version of WoW they were constantly updating. And I think that if Blizzard has a choice between devoting resources to progressing a game and modernizing it so that it can maintain its user-base, and attract new users who like more current-style games as older users stop playing, or to recreating a legacy server that would probably get limited use before people beat everything, did everything, and then quit anyway because they'd "finished" the game, then the first option is just the better choice.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##
Post by
murphmanfa
I think that it's hard to evaluate how Vanilla WoW would be enjoyed today based on how many people enjoyed it when it was released, because gaming technology advances fairly quickly, and how good a game is when it comes out is always somewhat based on how it compares to its contemporaries...
Can I give you a hug for this post?
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