This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Dear undercutters: please keep undercutting each other
Return to board index
Post by
lonewarrior
Sorry but I'm coming down on the side of Elhonna here....
The Civgw post quotes
As regards the price itself, most prices are way above what I consider reasonable. A good price should be where both sides are happy not just the seller.
But this depends on who is your customer. Merecedes obviously doesn't cater to low income people..they target high income people and they make sales.
For all the years I've sold on the Auction house...I never got less for what I wanted on an item because I never catered to broke players.
Any item I sell only needs one customer and with all they gold out there, it has never been a problem finding a buyer for my item.
My buyers must be happy since I provided what they needed. Gold is not an issue to them..time is..and I save them time..."time is money"
The generosity you seek is best served up in guilds and by guild members...which is where most of my gold went.
I thought you were supposed to play this game for fun so why, if I wanted to have these professions for my alts, shouldn't I do so.
Or maybe I'm supposed to change professions when I hit max level which means either I spend a pile of money in the AH or I'm supposed to grind a new profession from scratch?
I'm sorry but I would much rather level a new alt thank you very much.
You prefer not to engage in the economics of the game and that is your prerogative. I knew quite a few players who didn't even bother on their profession...so be it.
But then you make statements in regards to the AH and the economics of the game and how it would impinge on your "fun" which I hi-light...which lends me to believe your not exactly talking straight anymore....now it sounds more like Wrath baby "gimmenomics".
The simplistic beauty of this game is you get out what you put in.
If you don't want to put any effort on the profession/economic side of the game...go have your fun, but you shouldn't expect any favors from strangers in regard to your professions.
It would be nice..of course. But a broad brush stroke on how people should play it because it serves the needs of players like you doesn't sell.
That's the thing though. I'm not insinuating you need to work on your reading comprehension, I'm flat out saying you do (much like a few other people in this thread). Here is why.
@ Crimson...What part was misunderstood by those debating these issues in Civgw posts.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheReal
To anyone interested, the topic became "how the economy works" with Atik's post on page one. civgw didn't even make a "debatable" post until page 3, and ElhonnaDS replied with a short lesson in economics.
Civgw's posting "prices should be where both sides are happy (with the sale price)" completely ignores most other buyers besides himself (apologies if I'm making an erroneous assumption regarding your gender). If I'm selling things at the AH, then obviously buyers are happy with the price or they wouldn't be buying my stuff. Likewise, I don't buy things unless I'm happy with the gold-spent
:
gold-I-could-have-lost-while-farming-it-myself ratio. If I can farm for an hour to make 3k gold and I value a particular transmog piece as being worth an hour of my time, I'll happily drop 3k on it and call it even. That's how economies work.
Just because civgw is in the lower half of the seller population doesn't make him right or wrong. We need all kinds to run a successful economy. That said, I'll refer you to the title of the thread. Undercut me hardcore and I'll just buy you out and sell it for what you could have made if you hadn't been so concerned with a quick sale. You get what you want and I get what I want. Why does anyone have to be mad?
Post by
ElhonnaDS
It's really the same divide that there's been from the beginning. Everyone who understands what I was talking about knows how it was related directly to the points I was responding to. Everyone who doesn't is all "Why are we suddenly talking about rent?" I don't think it's worth pursuing further, as I can't think of ways to explain things that don't involve cause and effect, and the system as a whole, and clearly that isn't working. And at this point the conversation has become about who can't read because they took something different from the passage than you did, and not about the subject of prices on the AH.
I do think it's funny when the response to someone directly quoting someone else, is that clearly they didn't read it. I'm not sure how they would have found the quotes if they hadn't, but maybe there are programs for that. Even if you have trouble comprehending, the specific arguments I was responding to are there, which is why Lonewolfe had them to quote, and their implications were what I was addressing.
I will admit that I was not clear on the tailoring/enchanting issue. i personally see them as working very well together, without the need for much extra farming. However, Civg said that they didn't, and rather than open up a new debate about how easy it is to level them while leveling without the AH, I just continued the discussion under the pretense that Civg was correct that they didn't go together, because at that point I still had hope for making what we were talking about understood. Sorry if that added some confusion.
Post by
civgw
This is got to be one of the most bizarre threads in the general forum's history.
How can so much emotion be raised over myself agreeing with Elhonnads statement A new character, with no gold, shouldn't have to buy mats or greens because the game is set up that they don't have to. but saying that in the past the set-up wasn't quite the same.
I then gave one anecdote about in Wrath when I was on a new server and I decided to use the AH and the prices I chose to pay left me with little money.
I never said it was the correct thing to do or others should copy me.
I gave another anecdote to illustrate the opposite where I chose not to pay the AH prices.
I never said that others should copy me or that sellers shouldn't charge what they won't.
The reason I chose those anecdotes is because as it turns out those Alts are the ones that I am levelling just now. So I am reminded of these decisions because I have a lot less money on these alliance alts than I did on my horde alts which rarely used the AH. I am reminded because I found out four days before MOP that glyph books could be made by Northrend research and, because the forums thought that Blackfallow ink may not be tradeble in MOP, I had to do a serious amount of herbing in four days on two PVP servers with CRZ implications. I am reminded because every day for around 35 days I will be making glyphs until I have all the glyphs.
How it got from that simple beginning to where the thread is now is beyond me.
Post by
civgw
Sorry but I'm coming down on the side of Elhonna here....
The Civgw post quotes
As regards the price itself, most prices are way above what I consider reasonable. A good price should be where both sides are happy not just the seller.
But this depends on who is your customer. Merecedes obviously doesn't cater to low income people..they target high income people and they make sales.
For all the years I've sold on the Auction house...I never got less for what I wanted on an item because I never catered to broke players.
Any item I sell only needs one customer and with all they gold out there, it has never been a problem finding a buyer for my item.
My buyers must be happy since I provided what they needed. Gold is not an issue to them..time is..and I save them time..."time is money"
The generosity you seek is best served up in guilds and by guild members...which is where most of my gold went.
I thought you were supposed to play this game for fun so why, if I wanted to have these professions for my alts, shouldn't I do so.
Or maybe I'm supposed to change professions when I hit max level which means either I spend a pile of money in the AH or I'm supposed to grind a new profession from scratch?
I'm sorry but I would much rather level a new alt thank you very much.
You prefer not to engage in the economics of the game and that is your prerogative. I knew quite a few players who didn't even bother on their profession...so be it.
But then you make statements in regards to the AH and the economics of the game and how it would impinge on your "fun" which I hi-light...which lends me to believe your not exactly talking straight anymore....now it sounds more like Wrath baby "gimmenomics".
The simplistic beauty of this game is you get out what you put in.
If you don't want to put any effort on the profession/economic side of the game...go have your fun, but you shouldn't expect any favors from strangers in regard to your professions.
It would be nice..of course. But a broad brush stroke on how people should play it because it serves the needs of players like you doesn't sell.
That's the thing though. I'm not insinuating you need to work on your reading comprehension, I'm flat out saying you do (much like a few other people in this thread). Here is why.
@ Crimson...What part was misunderstood by those debating these issues in Civgw posts.
You are reading too much into what I said in your first quote.
I was simply stating my view on prices and I wasn't saying that sellers should change there price to acommodate me. I wasn't trying to be argumentative.
For the second quote , you missed the context in which it was said.
It was in response to Black Monarch saying
You had three crafting professions and one gathering profession... and somehow your suffering was not your own fault?
and I took exception to him telling me how I should play the game. I am perfectly aware that if you want to make money from professions then taking crafting professions is a way to go. However that doesn't work for me as I only level alts and am not interested in powerlevelling professions at the endgame.
I have never said that other people should charge prices in the AH to acommodate me.
Post by
lonewarrior
This is got to be one of the most bizarre threads in the general forum's history.
How can so much emotion be raised over myself agreeing with Elhonnads statement A new character, with no gold, shouldn't have to buy mats or greens because the game is set up that they don't have to. but saying that in the past the set-up wasn't quite the same.
I then gave one anecdote about in Wrath when I was on a new server and I decided to use the AH and the prices I chose to pay left me with little money.
I never said it was the correct thing to do or others should copy me.
I gave another anecdote to illustrate the opposite where I chose not to pay the AH prices.
I never said that others should copy me or that sellers shouldn't charge what they won't.
The reason I chose those anecdotes is because as it turns out those Alts are the ones that I am levelling just now. So I am reminded of these decisions because I have a lot less money on these alliance alts than I did on my horde alts which rarely used the AH. I am reminded because I found out four days before MOP that glyph books could be made by Northrend research and, because the forums thought that Blackfallow ink may not be tradeble in MOP, I had to do a serious amount of herbing in four days on two PVP servers with CRZ implications. I am reminded because every day for around 35 days I will be making glyphs until I have all the glyphs.
How it got from that simple beginning to where the thread is now is beyond me.
I see nothing bizarre...
If you don't want to respond to your position ..why continue posting.
The game's peripherals for new players/server toons can be very unforgiving.
Players like the OP add to that by removing moderately priced items from the AH and re-stocking them above the means of said type players.
We were all new players...we know the grind. But we all did it.
I just leveled on a new server..flat broke and all. I still managed to level enchanting/engineering.
I just didn't do it in 5 days like the masses seem to want everything done these days.
It was a challenge..but I wanted these professions.
Blizz does offer up and easy get level 58 death knight that affords new server players an option for easy gathering profession to make gold.
As for new players in general..that's the curve of the game. Does it get more difficult with each expansion...yes.
This where guilds used to fill the niche.
When I was a full time GM I use to buy items and stock them in the guild bank tab to help newbies.
My guild was extremely generous in providing mats. All I/we ever asked is that they put in the effort to be good guild members and play the game right.
The general population wants leveling perks these day...that what guilds provide. What was once major community builder has fallen to just a house of perks.
There is just a whole lot of gold in the game these days and the divide between the have and have not has grown wider.
So unless Blizzard decides to offer up a pot of gold for new players or allow new server players to transfer gold to offset the rising costs..every individual starting new is going to have to decide what part of the game is important to them and then put in the time to make it happen and pace themselves to still keep it fun.
But gold begging in any form is still frowned upon.
@ Crimson...you would make a great politician.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
civgw
I will admit that I was not clear on the tailoring/enchanting issue. i personally see them as working very well together, without the need for much extra farming. However, Civg said that they didn't, and rather than open up a new debate about how easy it is to level them while leveling without the AH, I just continued the discussion under the pretense that Civg was correct that they didn't go together, because at that point I still had hope for making what we were talking about understood. Sorry if that added some confusion.
Elhonnads,
Believe me I am trying so hard not to get into an argument with you, but you keep putting words into my mouth that I didn't say. At no point did I say that tailoring and enchanting didn't go well together. If you go back to what I originally said ("In the past it wasn't always that way" in response to your comment that the game was set up for new players to not need to buy greens or mats) , then it is obvious that I was talking about professions in the past not now. In Wrath, professions were way harder than they are now and as such there was a greater chance that you would use the AH to alleviate grinding.
The problem for me is that other people are reading what you are saying that I said and giving a hard for time it.
Post by
BlackMonarch
Another great undercutting story: today, I saw two sellers engaged in a price war over Solid Stone in which they had knocked the price down to 15-16 silver per stack.
For those who aren't miners, Solid Stone vendors for 20s/stack.
I scooped up the stone and vendored it for some spare change. Thanks, morons!
Civgw was saying that the prices on the AH were "way above what I consider reasonable". Those were his or her EXACT words, on this page.
you and Elhonna are completely failing to understand what Civ is talking about
Riiiight.
So this thread is separating not just those who understand economics from those who don't, but also those who possess basic reading comprehension from those who don't.
It was in response to Black Monarch saying
You had three crafting professions and one gathering profession... and somehow your suffering was not your own fault?
And that, in turn, was in response to the following:
A new character, with no gold, shouldn't have to buy mats or greens because the game is set up that they don't have to.
It wasn't always this way.
In the start of Wrath, high AH prices were hellish for my first two alts on a new server. One did tailoring/ enchanting and the other mining/engineering. I never got enchanting maxed until I went back to that alt in Cata, but even so they only had a few hundred gold between them. I only buy from the AH as a last resort especially because of high prices.
To me, that sounds an awful lot like blaming high AH prices for your inability to level your professions, when the reality is that you have nobody but yourself to blame for skewing your professions so heavily toward consuming mats instead of producing them. It also sounds an awful lot like you're saying "a new character, with no gold, used to have to buy mats and greens because professions didn't always go as well together as they do now", which is obviously BULLCRAP.
and I took exception to him telling me how I should play the game.
I never told you how to play the game. I'm just saying that if you have 1 gathering profession and 3 crafting professions, you are in no position to complain about AH prices.
The game's peripherals for new players/server toons can be very unforgiving.
Players like the OP add to that by removing moderately priced items from the AH and re-stocking them above the means of said type players.
There's no such thing as "above the means" of any player. Any n00btard can spend 20 minutes getting from level 1 to level 5 and then spend the rest of the day herbing, mining, and/or skinning, and bam, 1-2k gold.
Blizz does offer up and easy get level 58 death knight that affords new server players an option for easy gathering profession to make gold.
Not quite. You have to get another character on the same realm up to level 55 to create a Death Knight.
The general population wants leveling perks these day...that what guilds provide. What was once major community builder has fallen to just a house of perks.
What? Aw hell no! I mean, yeah, the heirloom capes/helms/pants are nice, and I enjoy riding around on my new Kor'kron Annihilator, but most of my toons on Stormscale are members of Azerture Science, a measly level 9 (last time I was on Stormscale) guild. I could easily have them jump ship to a level 25 guild like Infinity (one of my toons is already in that guild), but I've gotten to know the AzSci peeps pretty well and I don't feel like abandoning them. Guilds are still great community-builders.
There is just a whole lot of gold in the game these days and the divide between the have and have not has grown wider.
There are no "have nots" in WoW, except for those like Civgw who
choose
to "have not".
every individual starting new is going to have to decide what part of the game is important to them and then put in the time to make it happen and pace themselves to still keep it fun.
God forbid... *rolleyes*
But gold begging in any form is still frowned upon.
By some people, yes, but not by others. Earlier today, a guy in Blackwater Raiders horde trade channel was like "hey, can I borrow 200 gold from someone to buy heirlooms?"... so I gave him/her 200g. I asked if I was ever going to see that gold again, and he/she said yes, but I honestly didn't care. I didn't take note of the character's name or ask for collateral or anything. 200g? That's like... 5 stacks of Mithril or Thorium. I can mine that in a few minutes. I probably lost more than 200g just by spending my time in this thread instead of in the game. Go ahead and beg for gold, I don't give a crap.
In Wrath, professions were way harder than they are now and as such there was a greater chance that you would use the AH to alleviate grinding.
In Wrath, skinning didn't feed Leatherworking? Herbalism didn't feed alchemy? Mining didn't feed blacksmithing? People had to turn to the AH because it was full of stuff that nobody could farm? I find that hard to believe.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Guys- lets just either let the thread die, or get back on the topic of the actual AH. I have been as guilty as anyone of the he-said/she-said, but I was originally trying to discuss the actual AH/economy, and the last 2 pages has been all of us defending what we said, what we understood and why, and it's not really a conversation worth having anymore.
I will say that if I have completely misread the intent of Civgw posts, that I apologize for the confusion and the argument it caused. Even rereading them now, in the context they they were posted in, it still sounds like you were inferring the things I was responding to. But if you were not, then I'm sorry that I misunderstood, and reacted to things that you apparently were not trying to say.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
lonewarrior
The game's peripherals for new players/server toons can be very unforgiving.
Players like the OP add to that by removing moderately priced items from the AH and re-stocking them above the means of said type players.
There's no such thing as "above the means" of any player. Any n00btard can spend 20 minutes getting from level 1 to level 5 and then spend the rest of the day herbing, mining, and/or skinning, and bam, 1-2k gold.
Blizz does offer up and easy get level 58 death knight that affords new server players an option for easy gathering profession to make gold.
Not quite. You have to get another character on the same realm up to level 55 to create a Death Knight.
The first quote wasn't meant as a disparaging remark. I've done the same myself. Most newbies really don't grasp the games economics right off.
If you manage to make 1 to 2 thousand K with a level 5...I pay homage to you :P
Incorrect on the second quote... I rolled a Deathknight on a new server.
They changed that a few years ago and you can test it yourself if you like.
Post by
TheWoWExp
Some of the latest items I've undercutted have been a few glyphs that were in the 250g+ range, and I lowered mine to around 50g+ for them instead.
As for the stacks, I'll either post things in 5, 10, or 20 if it's mats. As people have said, herbs and ore break down in certain professions in stacks of five. I'll usually only post one item if it's a glyph or gem or something along those lines. But people who post a large amount of items in single stacks irk me...luckily with Auctionator I can just ignore the stacks of one and focus on the other stacks.
Mainly with stacks of five, undercutters can get away with actually selling them for a higher price than full stacks. Take, for instance, a stack of twenty that costs 1g25s each. Someone could post a stack of five for that item and sell it at 1g55s and it would still look cheaper to people.
Post by
292411
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sas148
Any further discussions in here that are directed at one another regarding anything other than the topic at hand, "undercutting," may force me to lock this thread, delete posts or even take action on the accounts in question. There has been far to much off-topic, unnecessary and even insulting dialog between some of you... please refrain. Thank you.
Post by
BlackMonarch
Removed
Any further discussions in here that are directed at one another regarding anything other than the topic at hand, "undercutting," may force me to lock this thread, delete posts or even take action on the accounts in question. There has been far to much off-topic, unnecessary and even insulting dialog between some of you... please refrain. Thank you.
Yeah, I think it's best if you just lock the thread so that disciplinary action doesn't become necessary. We're about 3-4 posts away from someone comparing someone else to Hitler anyway.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##The mere fact that you decided yourself to make a new post in complete defiance of my statement is disrespectful. I've removed it. I see no reason to lock this from further relevant conversation as long as you, and everyone else, can refrain from continuing this behavior.
Discussing anyone's reading comprehension isn't necessary and only serves to further escalate hostile attitudes and behavior.
Post Reply
This topic is locked. You cannot post a reply.