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10.2.7
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10.2.6
Beta
Aspects no longer has a cooldown! oh wait...
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Post by
Nooska
They are specifcially trying to eliminate "stancedancing" for hunters with this - though stance dancing was unattractive play for other reasons (losing your resources, not being able to use your abilities if you were not in the right stance etc).
This does not actually compare to stance dancing, it compares to sealtwistin (and aspect twisting in wrath)
Post by
Interest
Pressing buttons for the sole purpose of pressing buttons is a terrible design mechanic and that is pretty much what the new aspect system will be. Wasting global cooldowns to switch to hawk or fox just to be competitive meanwhile other classes will be splitting our health pools in half.
Let's see, there are a few things similar to aspects:
Armors
Stances
Stances (monk)
Seals
Presences
Do any of them require you to
constantly switch back and forth
just to be able to play your class effectively? No, they do not. Even in the off situation of them requiring to be switched, aspects will by far be the worst offenders. It is absolutely ludicrously ridiculous.
Just thought I'd like to quote this statement.
Edit: This won't eliminate aspect dancing. This will just make aspect dancing suck, because chances are Hunters are still going to be swapping aspects.
Post by
Gimpling
jeah, it's now much much worser then stance dancing, aspect twisting extrem (especially for mm&sv)
Post by
Nooska
I didn't say they succeded, but they are clearly trying to avoid aspect twisting :)
Post by
Gimpling
they took the ability to twist/dance, but we stil have to...and thats suck
btw, r1 hunters like Tosan(
http://www.youtube.com/user/TosanTribe
/
http://de.twitch.tv/tosantribe
)
unumz(
http://de.twitch.tv/unumz
) and braindeadly (
http://www.youtube.com/user/BraindeadlyEU?feature=g-user-u
/
http://www.own3d.tv/AtheneLive/live/188081
)
all of them said this change hast to be removed.... and the aspects system remaken.
braindeadly event want to make video about this
Post by
Interest
Aspect of the Wolf.
Now.
10% AP and Steady/Cobra while moving.
Problem solved. Is that so difficult? Better yet, just balance our shots without the cursed Aspects and so on and make Steady/Cobra baseline and leave Cheetah/Beast, I guess.
Post by
Gimpling
maybe they should make cheetah not breaking anymore, so you have to choose between wolf and cheetah then.
btw guys... a funny thing to show how lazy blizzard is:
Dire Beast now lasts until cancelled, up from 15 sec.
after this change didn't functioned on beta, they just let it how it was.(it still only last 15sec...)
Dire Beast now lasts 15 sec again.
Post by
Nooska
Thats a datamining error, dire beast has never been intended to "last until cancelled" - thats not blizzard.
However , I have to say I don't think hunters are balanced around aspect twisting in pvp - that pve damage (dungeons and raids) is balanced around an assumption that we have hawk up is dead on (otherwise they just added a 10% multiplicative scaling to us that buffs us above everyone else if they get close enough with balancing).
In regards to PvP, we have to make choices between utility and output - just the same as all classes - no, as I said, I don't think it would be too powerful to merge hawk and fox, but I also don't think we necessarily have to have hawk up.
The "r1" (? I assume thats some monicker for highly ranked pvp players?) that say it don't mean its correct, just like me suggesting specific changes doesn't mean it will be acted upon, just because I am acknowledged to know my BM spec (for pve).
With all the abilities we have, it is natural (and I see this from all the other classes as well) in regards to a new expansion and changes to how we should play, there will be players that were good under the previous system that won't be good immediately (if ever) under the new system argue that the changes need to be made so the old playstyle still works.
Baseline, if aspects are added in macros to always have the benefit of them when you want them, they need to be on the GCD. The only way to prevent it that exists.
Now the problem may have a better solution, namely merging 2 aspects (like they did with Aspect of the dragonhawk) rather than putting them on the GCD becase it affects other aspects of the game as well (in this case pve, means you can't easily use cheetah for kiting in encounters for instance) - however, they probably (like most timeS) apply a quick fix and see if that works like they want it to - and then they can apply or change deeper mechanics if it doesn't.
the base premise that I object strenously to, is "we have to aspect twist, it just got harder" - I know that we
want
to use hawk for anything we can, as it jmeans we do more damage, but it doesn't mean we
have to
use it to be on a level playing field.
Post by
Interest
maybe they should make cheetah not breaking anymore, so you have to choose between wolf and cheetah then.
btw guys... a funny thing to show how lazy blizzard is:
Dire Beast now lasts until cancelled, up from 15 sec.
after this change didn't functioned on beta, they just let it how it was.(it still only last 15sec...)
Dire Beast now lasts 15 sec again.
I think there's a glyph to prevent Cheetah breaks. It just kicks you out of the Aspect instead.
the base premise that I object strenously to, is "we have to aspect twist, it just got harder" - I know that we want to use hawk for anything we can, as it jmeans we do more damage, but it doesn't mean we have to use it to be on a level playing field.
Tell that to the Aspect designers. We went a whole expansion where Hawk eventually became close to 20% of our total attack power (which is quite a bit more than you might think). In addition, there was virtually no compensation for this latest change that I am aware of. What it looks like, then, based on that logic (and trust me, I'm just thinking of Aspect locking because of this change), is a flat 9.1% attack power loss, which translate to something like a 5-7% damage loss.
We'll see how bad it really is though. Once 5.0.4 (and this change, probably) go live, I'm gonna go do some dps testing in Fox and Hawk.
Edit: I would like to point out that your base argument is the whole reason I don't even want aspect dancing to exist. Since when has a counterproductive mechanic ever worked out? There's a reason stuff like the BC Mage talents got obliterated beyond all recognition, but we have to eat a damage loss just to keep our resource regeneration optimal (see all other quotes and logic above).
Following that line of logic, this change is even MORE counterproductive. Now it's just shoehorning into a damage loss no matter what, macro or no macro, etc.
Post by
Nooska
maybe they should make cheetah not breaking anymore, so you have to choose between wolf and cheetah then.
btw guys... a funny thing to show how lazy blizzard is:
Dire Beast now lasts until cancelled, up from 15 sec.
after this change didn't functioned on beta, they just let it how it was.(it still only last 15sec...)
Dire Beast now lasts 15 sec again.
I think there's a glyph to prevent Cheetah breaks. It just kicks you out of the Aspect instead.
Its baseline, and it doesn't cancel on mount (I've run through enough mobs dazing me to have noticed this very specifically, and getting annoyed at mobs dazing mounted players for about 30 minutes (then noticing I had cheetah on).
Cheetah is actually a good aspect while levelling, since we should send in the pet first, and the old glyph of MD is baked in now (and MD is off the gcd, so for levelling you could just macro into all shots
"/use Misdirection" - I haven't bothered on the beta as I got too far into the levels (it was bugged in the bginning to not be castable on the pet - go figure).
Post by
Interest
The search seems to say otherwise.
Post by
Nooska
Well, the datamining is broken then, as what I describe is what works on beta (okay, caveat, I'llg o check if I used the glyph, though I really don't think so, too may interesting fun glyphs to use, and I never thought about using cheetah while doing... well anything...)
Post by
Interest
So I came up with a brilliant set of ideas that would fit with the removal of Aspects:
Hawk's Focus:
Whenever you fire a shot or cast an offensive ability that costs Focus, your next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot deals 3% more damage for 6 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. (Replaces AoTH)
Steady Shot/Cobra Shot
These abilities can be cast while mobile by default.
Cheetah's Swiftness:
1 minute cooldown. Passively grants 15% bonus movement speed, but is cancelled if you suffer damage from enemies (environment doesn't count) for 5 seconds (meaning virtually no effect on PvP). When cast, the effect is tripled for 4 seconds and cannot be cancelled by damage. This ability is off the global cooldown.
Black Ice
:
Now grants allies half the bonus movement speed. The effect persists for 2 seconds after leaving the area. Glyphing Black Ice also allows allies to trigger the trap.
Bestial Mentality (Passive):
You are now untraceable.
Thoughts?
Post by
Nooska
I see where you are coming from, but on first reading, I think its too severe a nerf to CoS/SS for non-pvp action - especially seeing as MMM will usually cast 2x SS in a row for Steady Focus (currently ISS), and BM will regularly cast 2 CoS in a row - also not using enough focus costing shots to ever reach 5 stacks.
Cheetahs swiftness, the way I read it, seems to be a streight up nerf to the aspect as we have it in mop (sorry, forgot to check whethe rI have it glyphed yesterday, will try to remember to check today).
Black Ice, I like the part where allies can trigger it by glyphing, though I have to say, it would be a major glyph, and there are enough of those right now.
Aspect of the beast is currently a minor glyph, so thats okay.
I don't see aspects as something we necessarily want to get rid of, we just want to make sure there isn't really any situation where we need or want to switch them regularly (barring the minorty that will argue for having to not make decisions, and want all positives at all times)
Post by
Interest
I see where you are coming from, but on first reading, I think its too severe a nerf to CoS/SS for non-pvp action - especially seeing as MMM will usually cast 2x SS in a row for Steady Focus (currently ISS), and BM will regularly cast 2 CoS in a row - also not using enough focus costing shots to ever reach 5 stacks.
Well the idea is it's not supposed to be a flat damage buff, but rather an interesting take on the Focus system that uses risk vs reward (i.e. risking focus capping to do slightly more damage). I think there would be other compensations with the removal of the Hawk aspect as well. In addition, I think it's actually even better in non-PvP, where it's probably even easier to keep the buff up.
Cheetahs swiftness, the way I read it, seems to be a streight up nerf to the aspect as we have it in mop (sorry, forgot to check whethe rI have it glyphed yesterday, will try to remember to check today).
This was the only logical way to keep it from becoming overpowered in PvP but keep the kiting power in PvE and soloing (where you're vastly less likely to get hit anyways). However, after some thinking, I decided to do this instead:
Cheetah's Swiftness:
45 second cooldown. Passively grants 15% bonus movement speed to you and your pet, but is cancelled if you suffer damage from enemies (environment doesn't count) for 4 seconds (meaning virtually no effect on PvP, effects on you and pet are INDEPENDENT of each other). When cast, you remove all movement impairing effects from you and your pet and you and your pet gain 45% movement speed and become immune to movement impairing effects for 4 seconds. This ability is off the global cooldown and the active effect can be dispelled. Master's Call removed. Master's Call's stupid requirements removed.
Black Ice, I like the part where allies can trigger it by glyphing, though I have to say, it would be a major glyph, and there are enough of those right now.
I don't particularly have a problem. I was considering using Black Ice even in its current state because the gimmick, to me, is amusing.
I don't see aspects as something we necessarily want to get rid of, we just want to make sure there isn't really any situation where we need or want to switch them regularly (barring the minorty that will argue for having to not make decisions, and want all positives at all times)
Well there's only so many logical ways to do it. Also, aspects aren't even a decision. They never really were.
Post by
Interest
I hate to double post, but there's been
some updates
to the thread.
Say what you will, but in this case, I strongly disagree with GC's responses here. Well...except for the last thing anyways.
Incidentally, gonna update some stuff:
Hawk's Focus:
Whenever you fire a shot or cast an offensive ability that costs Focus, your next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot can be cast while mobile for 20 seconds. This effect can accumulate up to 3 charges.
Posting again.
GC posted again. Aspects are going to go back off GCD.
The funny part? They essentially quoted me WORD FOR WORD.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Interest
Aspect of the Wolf.
Now.
10% AP and Steady/Cobra while moving.
Problem solved. Is that so difficult? Better yet, just balance our shots without the cursed Aspects and so on and make Steady/Cobra baseline and leave Cheetah/Beast, I guess.
They're too stupid to do that though. They'd rather make it so we have to aspect dance to be worth anything in pvp but then make it so it's a pain in the ass.
See my other ideas for how to make it better. Also check all the other posts.
Post by
781960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Gimpling
damn crimson, you were faster xD
it seems that blizzard care about the people
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