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Is The US Economy Ever Going To Turn Around?
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Post by
gamerunknown
Even Ron Paul, invisible handshaker, voted against the repeal of Glass-Steagall.
Post by
301983
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
They joined because they were attacked, and they were attacked because they had put economic sanctions on Japan as a protest to the war, which Japan considered an act of war in and of itself. Just like Russia joined because they were attacked. Neither country joined to be heroes- they were responding to acts of war.
And the Russian economy was much worse before WW2 than the American one. They sent soldiers into battle with no guns, and told them that when someone in front of them fell, they should pick up their gun and start fighting. If anyone needed an economic boost from wartime production, it would have been them. They didn't even have the manufacturing capabilities to make enough weapons for the soldiers they had. In the end, it was the weather that turned the tide for the Russians on the Eastern front, and the fact that they'd practiced a scorched earth policy when retreating so that the German army couldn't scavenge for supplies.
Also (and I know this from a first hand source, as my grandfather was stationed in Germany at the time), the Russian military declared Berlin an open city for 24 hours after it was captured, telling their soldiers to go in and destroy anything they want, take anything they want, rape whatever women they wanted, etc. He personally knew of a Russian officer who shot one of his own men for ignoring an order to stop after raping a woman a number of times (not that he shouldn't have raped her at all, but the officer though he'd gone overboard with the number of times), but beyond that they were pretty much given free reign. I wouldn't exactly call that a heroic triumph.
Post by
Magician22773
I agree we need less Government spending. A lot of what Magician said I completely agree with. However, first of all, if we cut our military expenditure in half, we would still be spending more on our military than any country in the world. In fact, if you combined the next thirteen highest military spenders, America's military budget is still leading by...17.8 billion dollars.
This is what comes with being a "superpower". BUT....as mentioned earlier, our military spending is very, very wasteful, and could easily be cut without any loss in our strength. But, just as you pointed out, we will always have a high defense budget because of who we are, and what we stand for.
Another thing I don't understand is a wish to build a 'balanced budget' while cutting tax revenue. Public hospitals, schools, libraries, and so on have got to go, but if the wealthiest members of society are getting taxed more it's going to lead to an economic collapse? It's not as if by being taxed at higher rates they'll stop trying to make money.
And here is the biggest, clearest difference between fiscal conservatives and liberals. My "opinion" is that if you raise taxes on the wealthy, which are
usually
the business owners that create jobs, they will in turn offset that loss. And the easiest way to offset it, is to cut employees.
And, more importantly, the opposite has been shown to be true as well. If you cut taxes on business owners, they will reinvest that money into their business', adding jobs, and paying better wages.
I realize it is very easy to look at wealthy people, and say "they need to pay more, because they have more". But the fact is, they already do. The top 5% of income earners pay over 50% of all the taxes, and the bottom 50% of income earners pay
no taxes
.
All you have to do to see how this works is look at how Reagan handled the recession of the late 70's. He cut taxes across the board, and business' responded. We actually had a significant increase in tax income buy cutting taxes.
Minimum wage is non-existant in some overseas countries or extremely low, so companies pack their bags and head on over to places like China - where they can pay their workers a dime per hour rather than 7 dollars. What ensues is money being maked not for the US, but for a completely different country.
On one hand, I actually think that the government could drop the minimum wage completely, and natural selection would take over. I don't think any American would work for 2 bucks an hour, and the business would fail on its own. But, lets just play along and pretend that someone would work for a dime an hour.....it that really any better than just shipping the job to somewhere like China where they will?
The better option is to lower taxes and restrictions on American companies, and penalize, via tariff, goods imported from China, so that American companies can compete with them on an even playing field. But, the nasty cycle of our debt prevents that, because China owns so much of our debt, that any attempt to cut them off from importing their good to us, would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
Just to double check, but isn't the poverty line of a country dictated by the average salary, and not below any specific standard of living? I was under the assumption that it was based on a percentage of deviation from the average income. With that in mind, a higher poverty rate could occur when there is still an increase in living wages and conditions across the board, if other income brackets improved faster. It also creates a disparate view of how our population relates to that of other countries, since people who would be considered "middle class" in other countries would be below the poverty line here, and vice versa. As far as I know, it also doesn't account for income and subsidized food and housing provided for by the government, when accounting for total earned.
I have been overseas, and what they call living in poverty in many countries bears no relation to what we call living in poverty. Poverty in the US still allows for food, clothing and shelter to be provided, especially with the various social programs we have. Kids still receive an education, and can earn a higher education through good grades, which means that there is a very accessible way for children born below the poverty line to qualify for professions that would raise them into other brackets.
I'm not saying that there aren't people in the US who aren't in desperate situations, but a lot of times words get used without a real examination of their meaning, and since poverty is relative to the average income of the country, and we're one of the wealthiest countries in the world, saying that poverty is at an all time high doesn't automatically imply the situation you seem to think it does.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Pwntiff
Q:Is The US Economy Ever Going To Turn Around?
A: Nope
And it's not a coincidence that every time USA was on economic crisis, shortly after (or before) a war was engulfed, just like the Great Depression.
Great Depression in the US: 1929-1939
World War II: 1939-1946 (Direct US Involvement: 1942-1946)
The New Deal (and WWII) is proof that increased spending can recover an economy, but it has to be done properly.
What I don't get is Congress (mostly Tea Party) avoiding any and all increases to taxes. Yes, cutting spending is important to dealing with the deficit, but there are things the government HAS to spend money on. There comes a point where cutting spending isn't enough and you've got to increase revenue. How does a government increase revenue? Increase taxes.
Post by
Adamsm
And it's not a coincidence that every time USA was on economic crisis, shortly after (or before) a war was engulfed, just like the Great Depression.
Holy tinfoil hat Batman....you do realize that in both World Wars, the US didn't join till about 2 years in right?
They joined only for their own purpose, Japan attacking them was the world's biggest mistake ever made in humanity that changed the future. Don't think now that US were heroes in WW2, yes they helped but only for their own purpose, the true heroes who killed most of german army and fought italy and japan was Russia.
As a
Canadian
Secarious, our forces were in both World Wars from the very beginning; yes it's true that America only joined both World Wars after their citizens were attacked(amazing how many people forget the sinking of the St Anne, which had two American casualties, but were enough to mobilize the American machine). That being said: Don't you dare make light of anyone who sacrificed them in either of those Wars; had the States not joined up, World War 2 would have gone on for a hell of a lot longer, and a lot more Russian's would have died.
Post by
Levarus
Increasing tax seems to be the cookie-cutter response when it comes to any economical threat - Increase the tax, put more money into the hands of corrupt politicians, and hope for the best. What's best is a power that relies not on demanding more money out of the people, but instead their
hard work
. Assess the production values of everything to one goal - what the American people need as a group. We have the land and resources to use both agriculture and manufacturing to our advantage - instead of taking money away from the working american, demand their potential.
The best way to achieve this is firstly by taking away summer vacations from the public education system, education is something that must be instilled daily and help rationalize the upcoming generation, education is a weapon that does not involve politics, or petty conflict. Rather the simple pursuit of enlightenment - and an enlightened country is a country where only good things are bound to happen.
Weekends now grant Sundays off, not Saturdays. We are in debt because of a lack of profit granted by the evils of capitalism and the control of a free-market economy left not to the majority, but to the minority. The majority - the segment which is jobless, the segment which given the opportunity to work for their country can morph us into what we once were: a thriving place of unrivaled industry, in both the farmer's fields and the worker's halls - America possesses the lands and means for a greater production-based society, to do this however, Capitalism must be completely eliminated. Instead of working for a companie's profit, work for the benefit of the group. The excess which is produced by hard-labor to not pay off the debts endowed upon certain allies, but instead to firstly and foremost
increase the value of the american dollar through the continual and resolute work of the people.
Therein lies the key to economical salvation, increase the value of the dollar,
then
pay off the debts.
Upper-class, middle-class, lower-class, there should be no tiers to one people. Instead all should thrive off the glories earned by their determination and continual path of hard-work, and with constant criticism of a foe subjugating us to the will of evergrowing powerful countries - it is possible.
Post by
Magician22773
Poverty
in America is at an all time high,
I have an uncle that, by his own poor lifestyle choices, is about as "poor" as you get. He is "disabled" by alcoholism, and lives off government support. His wife is also "disabled" by social anxiety. I find it funny that she can show up at every family BBQ, and go to the race track in town every weekend, but she can't be around crowds, so she can't work.
Anyway...2 adults, not a dime in "income" between them. They have a 2 bedroom apartment, that is subsidized by the government, so their rent is $6 a month (no, that isn't a typo...6 bucks). Their utilities are paid for. They get almost $600 a month in food assistance. If you look in their fridge, it is stocked with name brand soda, cheese,....all the best of everything.
They both have cell phones.... provided for free by the government....and they both have iPhones which they pay for with their SSI checks. The have a flat screen TV, high-speed internet, cable, and an X-Box.
They both have cars, plenty of clothes, shoes, and furniture....mostly provided by charity organizations.
But, most importantly, my uncle has a non-stop supply of beer and vodka.
And their situation id repeated all throughout the low (no) income housing that they live in. You drive through the parking lot and it is full of cars. Every other apartment I have looked in there has 50 inch flat screens. And I am sure that every fridge is stocked with foodstamp food.
THIS IS NOT POVERTY. It is entitlement mentality, and it is a huge reason why we are drowning in debt. There is no lack of jobs...at least not in my area. Craigslist has dozens of jobs posted daily. We just hired 4 people last week. But since the government just keeps extending unemployment out to infinity, why bother to go to work?
Post by
Levarus
THIS IS NOT POVERTY. It is entitlement mentality, and it is a huge reason why we are drowning in debt. There is no lack of jobs...at least not in my area. Craigslist has dozens of jobs posted daily. We just hired 4 people last week. But since the government just keeps extending unemployment out to infinity, why bother to go to work?
What do you suggest? Dumping millions of people across the nation onto the streets? Imagine the crime levels skyrocket. Welfare is a good thing, it keeps the poor from doing some really bad things.
Entitlement Mentality? Honestly, I think that is a very d*ck thing to say, there are people out there who are literally struggling to feed their families.
Post by
819424
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
207044
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
THIS IS NOT POVERTY. It is entitlement mentality, and it is a huge reason why we are drowning in debt. There is no lack of jobs...at least not in my area. Craigslist has dozens of jobs posted daily. We just hired 4 people last week. But since the government just keeps extending unemployment out to infinity, why bother to go to work?
What do you suggest? Dumping millions of people across the nation onto the streets? Imagine the crime levels skyrocket. Welfare is a good thing, it keeps the poor from doing some really bad things.
Entitlement Mentality? Honestly, I think that is a very d*ck thing to say, there are people out there who are literally struggling to feed their families.
And there are people who are literally cheating the government and mooching off the system because they are too damn lazy to contribute.
I, personnally, HATE welfare and unemployment. I hate government support to people who can work but don't.
As for the question at hand?
YES
The US economy will turn around, given enough time, and we will begin to climb up from the low back into the high. It is how the economy cycle works. Ups and downs. The problem is, out last up got really, really high. So we had a bigger fall than usual.
Post by
Magician22773
How does a government increase revenue? Increase taxes.
Reagan showed this was not the only way. He didn't just cut taxes, he slashed the hell out of them. And revenue increased as a result.
If taxes need to be increased anywhere, it is not at the top, but in middle and at the bottom. I don't think that ANYONE that is earning a wage should be exempted from taxes completely. I am not saying they need to be taxed a huge amount, but they should, and could, provide something to help with the ecomomy.
Again, just like with people on welfare having big screen TV's and X-boxes, it pisses me off to see people get HUGE tax "refunds", and then blow them on luxury items. I have another friend that does work...as a siding installer. They live paycheck to paycheck, but at least he works. But every year, they get several thousand dollars for a tax refund. They not only get back every penny he pays during the year, but they get thousands in "earned income" credits.
And every year, they get a new TV, new furniture, a nicer car, ...one year they got a very nice swimming pool.
And the same kind of people account for about 50% of all "taxpayers" in the US. They "pay" nothing, and usually get thousands more back than what they pay in. Let them pay a small percentage, and it would add up.
Look, what we are debating here is Liberal vs. Conservative fiscal policy, and there is as much chance of changing someones opinion as there is in all the other debates that put polar opposite ideas against each other. So, honestly, I am going to bow out of this one.
I will leave with my opinion....I think the economy will recover, but I think it is going to get worse..much worse, before it does. I think the US will default on its debt, and that will have a severe impact across the world. I think the Great Depression, and the Stock Market crash are going to pale in comparison to what will come. Thats just an opinion, but its based on observations that I believe that we have already crossed the point of no return. The system will have to fail before it can be rebuilt.
Post by
Levarus
Revenue increases grossing value, yes, but not profit. Less spending is more crucial than increased tax.
Post by
334295
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skithus
The best way to achieve this is firstly by taking away summer vacations from the public education system, education is something that must be instilled daily and help rationalize the upcoming generation, education is a weapon that does not involve politics, or petty conflict.
So you want to take our education system, that in many locations already has inadequate funding, and now you want to increase their costs by about 25%. Who exactly do you expect to pay for that?
Education = success is an outdated concept. A holdover from when the majority of the population was uneducated, supply and demanded meant that the smaller number of educated individuals who could work white collar jobs would earn a premium over the blue collar workers. Now when almost everyone gets a high school education, the reverse is true, those willing to do hard manual labor earn more then someone sitting in an office doing TPS reports.
There are people who just arrived in our country, know hardly any English and are making $20+ an hour off the books because they are willing to do intense manual labor jobs in construction and whatnot. Compare that with the educated student who just got out of college, is lucky to make $15 an hour in an office job, and yet is also stuck with around $20,000 in debt from student loans.
Schools don't teach the one thing that matters, and that is how to manage the money you do earn, and how to stay out of debt. Naming the capital of all 50 states, or knowing the atomic makeup of various compounds isn't going to help you when you run off and get a loan from a bank for something that you have no real chance of paying off in your lifetime at your current income.
We don't need more school, we need better school. School funding is now baised off how students preform on standardized tests. Have you ever been on an interview and they asked you what your SAT scores were? No? Maybe that's because no one gives a damn, and it has little to no practical application for ~95% of jobs.
Almost 90% of Americans over the age of 25 have graduated highschool, and yet 46% of Americans spend more money per year then they bring in.
Which means that nearly 50% of Americans don't grasp that spending more money then you make is not sustainable, but I guess that makes sense, since our government didn't seem to get that memo either.
Post by
gnomerdon
obama 2012.
=(
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