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A Sense of Community Lost?
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Post by
Adjust
I am a new poster here, but a long-time WoW player (since Vanilla).
With the coming of the new expansion, the developers have stated that they are trying to get back to the roots of 'the feeling' that players had pre-BC.
For me, the LFD and LFR has ruined what they are trying to accomplish.
These two wonderful systems aid many players, but overall they have taken away any sense of community servers and guilds had.
If these systems are kept- which they undoubtedly will - there needs to be a rating system for the party members you group with; something akin to achievements that other players can view.
Take this idea further and players are given rewards for grouping with same-server parties (in the same way guild achievements are done). They have already stated that some dungeons will be run-to only; some of the best memories were of attempting to do a dungeon only to have it turn into an hour long World PvP session.
There is much more - but for brevity sake I will leave it here. If you want a game that is more the LFD and LFR need to be changed, and if you do this, you will not only have players log on each week, but stay on to play with the people they meet in-game.
Post by
Agentkillerlee
I started playing wow a few months before LFD was introduced. I have like LFD since then, its a great leveling tool. But I don't think that we need it for gearing at max level. LFR was just stupid. Too many ^&*!@#$s/griefers in each LFR.
I'm not saying I hate them, because I kinda do a little. But I would like them removed, but that would probably never happen soo :/.
I'm a PvEr and a PvPer. LFD is the perfect thing for people that can't quest on their own but should not be used for gearing, well maybe to get gear into dungeon heroics that your realm can run...and i have lost my train of thought there oh well :P
Post by
Adjust
They aren't going to take them out - end of story.
But the rating system i proposed would bring back the sense of repercussion people had when they ninja'ed items, or generally were an a$$ to others in Vanilla. Because these actions were restrained to your own realm, you had to deal with the people you insulted every-time you logged on.
You had a reputation.
Post by
1011454
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adjust
And again - they're here to stay for casual players benefit. No-one will want to get rid of them.
My main point is that if they want to bring a sense of community back to the game with the next expansion they have to alter the mechanics of LFD and LFR.
And believe it or not there was a time before these two tools (LFD, LFR) and yes people still got things done just as quickly.
Post by
1011454
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adjust
I would agree with you in theory - but you may be surprised. The majority of people DO like to play the game. It's simple statistics:
You party with 4 others. One is a characteristic griefer and the other's aren't. He would gain 3x the negative rating (from the rest of the party) than you would from his single 'down-vote'.
People like to succeed. ilvl is broken and a terrible judge of game-play now. Wouldnt it be easier to examine someone and look at their LFD or LFR reputation and see:
Oh his gear isn't great but he has 4 stars (or equivalent measure) let's take him, he will listen and try.
Players have policed themselves once before. It WILL work again.
Post by
1011454
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Indeed; the issue has nothing to do with Blizzard or the game, it's all about the player base.
Post by
Adjust
They're both connected. And some could easily argue that the above comments (all of which i agree with) concerning the people on servers / in LFD and LFR these days are all a result of the LFD and LFR systems.
Post by
1011454
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adjust
But you really don't need the best gear - that is the problem with ilvl.
People have become so fixated on this one stat that it tends to dwarf anything the player does or says.
I heal on a ilevel 384 paladin. Full DS HM. It can be done - and with a casual guild. This will help you in your quest to see end-game by providing you a way to by-pass the gear-epeen garbage.
Post by
1011454
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Post by
yukonjack
I have played primarily on the same server since early TBC and yes there was certainly some characters I would not group with based on all the bad press they recieved. The thing is though pugging random groups from trade chat was often still a nightmare, it just took longer to assemble the group. So now instead of having an ignore list full of undesirables from my own realm its filled with players from other realms.
I think a lot of this sense of server community that supposedly existed pre LFD LFR is nostalgia working its charm.Sure we knew who the unwanted players were, or at least thought we did, they would simply change their name or reroll and even when they didnt bother with that they still managed to get pug groups together and we would witness the fallout in trade chat soon after.
So my point is even though we had only the reputation of players on our own realms to decide wether we would group with them or not a lot of people still ignored that "rating system" and I think if one were to be introduced to LFD LFR the same thing would happen.
Everything I have stated about pugging back then was what made me start looking for a guild that fit me, and I believe the answer today is the same now as it was then the best way to fix the typical pug is not to pug at all and stick with people you know as often as possible.
Finally though I have noticed more and more players in guilds I am a member of not even attempting to organize a run with their fellow guildies and instead choosing to queue up for LFD/LFR and that I think is where the real problem lies.
In conclusion I think the best way to promote players grouping with guildies instead of random cross server players is to only award justice and valor points when the LFD/LFR is comprised by a full guild group.
Now trust me I know the outcry on this would be extreme but as with every other unpopular decision the rabble would eventually calm.
Post by
Nulgar
I think a lot of this sense of server community that supposedly existed pre LFD LFR is nostalgia working its charm.Well in this case (unlike most other perceptions of Vanilla/BC) there's actually a point behind this - but it isn't LFG, it's simply the increase in player numbers - despite the addition of servers, there are more people playing per realm than during WoW's early days.
Like an eerie reproduction of how human society evolved: Before, there were simply less people available to form a community, so people were more likely to see past single negative things about their colleagues - good in that you didn't unfriend someone/drop guild over minor things, bad in that you couldn't do much when there were actual issues and fights, as esp. changing the realm was quite difficult.
Now that there are more ways to deal with problems, people can avoid unnecessary fights and hostilities with other players, and find a better environment to play. But on the other hand, even the minor squabbles, which could easily be resolved or ignored, often trigger the same reactions - drop group/guild, change server.
However, this isn't Blizzard's fault at all, unless you want to blame them for making a game that had attracted up to 12 million concurrent subscribers.
Post by
Adjust
That's just it and the developers have said the same thing:
They are trying to revert back to the 'feel' people had in Vanilla - they want them to 'get back out into the World'.
I have read nothing that deals with what may be the main root of the problem: the LFD and LFR system. And it is beside the point that subscription numbers have increased.
They added more servers - people spread out. It evens out.
If they want to ensure the continued success of WoW its not about getting subscriptions - its about the people who log on and stay on through-out the years. And in general I would say that those people who stick it out have some connection to other players in game; that is what the LFD and LFR has destroyed - the ability to make those connections.
Post by
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nulgar
They added more servers - people spread out. It evens out.Not really when you consider that servers today also support way more players than back then. Not to mention forums etc. which aren't affected by relative realm populations.
that is what the LFD and LFR has destroyed - the ability to make those connections.It's hardly just LFG - not to mention that the
ability
to make those connections is still there, it's just that there is an alternative in LFG's short-lived groups. But you can still pre-form your dungeon group, with guild members, people from your friend list, and even Battle.net friends.
Getting a bit more general again: As a
great article
once said, "get suspicious every time you see simplicity". That was meant directly in the context of social interactions. As the internet/WoW grows, like the real world, people are able less and less to see other people as "people" - and if they fail to do so even for actual humans they see on the streets every day, you bet they fail, too, when it comes to online interactions with the virtual characters of other people, even when they talk to them - to some, other "players" are just NPCs with a better AI.
The behavior in LFG is just symptom of that very human shortcoming, instead being the fault of the LFG system. Short of stopping all automated or cross-server grouping, which would adversely affect probably about half of the playerbase, there's nothing
Blizzard
can do to "fix" this. They are no psychologists or teachers, they are a company.
Not that generic... misbehavior in PuGs was the sole domain of LFG, I very much remember the times in BC, looking for a 5th party member for the daily heroic, and more than once it was some a** who already had an ID and transmitted it to 1-4 other players before they noticed what happened. With BC's rising influx of new players, alts and easily formed new guilds, it became more difficult to spot "bad" players, long before LFD.
Post by
1012859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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