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DOTD - Debate of The Day #52
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Post by
Squishalot
Your mom obviously had fairly liberal parents. We had a single phone in the living room, until we got a cordless phone.
I appreciate that you'd feel awkward saying certain things if your parents could hear, and so I simply wouldn't say them until I got the chance to meet up with my partner, or simply waited for my parents not to be around for whatever reason (e.g. while they're in the shower or at work or something). Feeling awkward isn't a good enough reason to circumvent a parent's
prerogative
responsibility to know what's going on.
Post by
FatalHeaven
As a parallel people 20-30 years ago didn't have cell phones while they were 12-18 years old, but they made phone calls to their boyfriends/girlfriends instead, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want their parents knowing what they said on the phone, even though their parents payed the phone bill.
As a parallel, the corded phone would've been out in the living room, within earshot. You still wouldn't have privacy under your parents' roof. Again, my house, my rules - if you want to use the phone, you use it in the living room so that we know if something dodgy is going on. After all, what do you have to hide in a conversation with your boyfriend/girlfriend that you wouldn't have to hide with a conversation with anybody else?
I know my mom as a teenager had a corded phone in her room, this was in the mid 70s. I'm not sure how your teenage love life was (nor do i want to know) but there are some things on the phone that i would just feel awkward saying if i knew my parents could hear, and im not meaning explicitly sexual things either.
If you aren't man or woman enough to say 'I love you' in front of your parents without being
awkward
.... grow up or don't say it? And anything bigger than I love you probably doesn't
need
to be said by a teen.
Post by
Magician22773
I think its funny that all the emphasis has been on "ownership" of the phone. I guess if your child goes out an buys a bag of cocaine with their own money, you have no right to flush it?
Kids do not have a "right" to privacy. They have no "rights" to anything, other than what I, or the law, give them. As long as they are under the age of 18, I am legally responsible fo their well-being, and their actions. And that means I have every "right" as a parent to know what they are talking about, and to who.
I am probably every teenage kids nightmare. As is evident in the last debate, I don't have some naive sense of security in what kids do these days. Also, I spend more time doing things that involve highschool kids (skateboarding and import car shows) than I do BBQ'ing with other 40 year olds.
My son made the "mistake" of taking my truck for a joyride when he was 14. Which, BTW, was something my friend and I did at about the same age as well. Only he got caught. (lol....he couldnt back it back into the garage, so he just left it outside...hoping I would not notice....I did)
It may seem harsh, because it is, but at that point all "trust" was gone. I have a good kid. He is not perfect, but he is not bad either. But, I now require "proof" rather than "trust"
I have 9 cameras in and around our house. Nothing gets in or out without me knowing. I have an infrared monitor on the driveway, so walking out isnt an option, unless you want to go hiking through the woods and climb a barb wire fence to get in or out. The house also has a ful security system on it, and I am notified by text any time the alarm is armed or disarmed.
I have alarms on both my vehicles. And his car has a hidden GPS unit in it. I can tell exactly where it is, and everytime it is started or moved. His phone also has GPS monitoring.
I also drug test him 1-3 times a month. So far, he has never failed.
And yes, I have full access to his computer and his phone. I also have keystroke loggers on all computers in the house.
So far, I have only read through his texts 1 time, and have used the keylogger 1 time.
I read his texts because I had the sheriff show up because after a bad breakup with a girlfriend, a friend of his was concerned he might be thinking of suicide, so when he could not reach him, he panicked and called the cops. He denied everything to the sheriff, but after reading his texts, he had mentioned hurting himself several times. Luckily, just a good father-son talk pulled him out of it. But, it could have been much worse.
I used the keylogger after he was caught in school with a bottle of vodka. He denied it was his, but would not tell whose it was. He was suspended from school, and was facing expulsion, so I used the keylogger to provide evidence to the school superintendent of what had really happened. Several girls had brought the bottle to school, and planned to get drunk at a party, and my son had taken the bottle to stop them. But, in his mind, he would have been willing to be expelled from school before telling on them, and they would have let him go down for it as well.
I should also point out that if you know your parents can read your messages you can either, use code they cant understand, delete any text you dont want them to see, or avoid using the phone for anything you dont want them to see. It's also a way to tell your kid you don't trust them.
This is why I just sooo love smartphones. Especially when I am "smarter" with them than he is. All android phones can be made to backup texts either to the SD card, or to Gmail. As for code, if I start seeing a buch of gibberish texts, I may not know what they mean, but I will assume they mean something bad, and the result will be the same.
Post by
Ksero
If you aren't man or woman enough to say 'I love you' in front of your parents without being
awkward
.... grow up or don't say it? And anything bigger than I love you probably doesn't
need
to be said by a teen.
I should have said explicit or implicit sexual things, of course i could say "i love you" in front of my parents. WHY do you need to read the text messages of your child, all that shows is distrust, and your child will view it that way also. If you don't trust them to use a cell phone, why are you even getting them one in the first place.
from my edit, since i dont think either of you saw it.
I should also point out that if you know your parents can read your messages you can either, use code they cant understand, delete any text they dont want you to see, or avoid using the phone for anything they dont want you to see...
Post by
Squishalot
I think its funny that all the emphasis has been on "ownership" of the phone. I guess if your child goes out an buys a bag of cocaine with their own money, you have no right to flush it?
I addressed that:
This is entirely different from, say, a birthday present, which would be theirs to do as they see fit, as would anything they buy themselves (though I would have the last say as to whether they can keep X inside my house).
Post by
Squishalot
If you aren't man or woman enough to say 'I love you' in front of your parents without being
awkward
.... grow up or don't say it? And anything bigger than I love you probably doesn't
need
to be said by a teen.
I should have said explicit or implicit sexual things
, of course i could say "i love you" in front of my parents. WHY do you need to read the text messages of your child, all that shows is distrust, and your child will view it that way also. If you don't trust them to use a cell phone, why are you even getting them one in the first place.
from my edit, since i dont think either of you saw it.
I should also point out that if you know your parents can read your messages you can either, use code they cant understand, delete any text they dont want you to see, or avoid using the phone for anything they dont want you to see...
But you actually said:
and im not meaning explicitly sexual things either.
... so I'm not sure what it is that you're feeling awkward about.
If my kids don't trust me not to read their texts/browsing history without good reason, then they're not ready to have a phone for themselves.
In relation to your edit - sure they can, but I would expect that they should be ready to 'fess up if I query about it for good reason.
Post by
Ksero
@magician22773 That makes sense, if you need to confirm something that could be serious issue then it makes sense to be able to read the texts.
Post by
Ksero
If you aren't man or woman enough to say 'I love you' in front of your parents without being
awkward
.... grow up or don't say it? And anything bigger than I love you probably doesn't
need
to be said by a teen.
I should have said explicit or implicit sexual things
, of course i could say "i love you" in front of my parents. WHY do you need to read the text messages of your child, all that shows is distrust, and your child will view it that way also. If you don't trust them to use a cell phone, why are you even getting them one in the first place.
from my edit, since i dont think either of you saw it.
I should also point out that if you know your parents can read your messages you can either, use code they cant understand, delete any text they dont want you to see, or avoid using the phone for anything they dont want you to see...
But you actually said:
and im not meaning explicitly sexual things either.
... so I'm not sure what it is that you're feeling awkward about.
If my kids don't trust me not to read their texts/browsing history without good reason, then they're not ready to have a phone for themselves.
In relation to your edit - sure they can, but I would expect that they should be ready to 'fess up if I query about it for good reason.
I used the wrong term by explicitly sexual things, i meant sexual things in general. My parents do not need to know every word that i have said to my girlfriend, they have no reason to know that information, it serves no purpose to them. However, if your child started to fail out of school, and you thought they might have a drug or alcohol problem/might be suicidal, that is a reason to go through there texts. be aware that doing so may weaken the parent child bond. You keeping them safe can be seen by them as you being too involved in their lives, causing them to rebel against you.
Post by
Magician22773
@magician22773 That makes sense, if you need to confirm something that could be serious issue then it makes sense to be able to read the texts.
And my son knows that.
I have told him, and I have kept to my end of the deal, that I don't care what him and his girlfriend are doing (although I did delete a couple pics from his phone that were a little to close to child porn to be comfortable), and I don't care (well, I care, but Im not going to bust him on it) about things that would be "normal" for teens...i.e smoking a cigarette, or what his friends are doing (unless it is something life threatening for example)
All I am looking for are pretty much suicide issues, or legal issues. His personal life is his, as long as it isn't going to get him or anyone else hurt or arrested....or thrown out of school.
be aware that doing so may weaken the parent child bond
Know what else weakens that bond.....the child killing themself of going to jail.
Post by
Ksero
be aware that doing so may weaken the parent child bond
Know what else weakens that bond.....the child killing themself of going to jail.
Fair point, its all about how you approach the situation, and not going out and just saying "I read your texts, I know you have "x" problem." Reading their on a per problem basis (as you did) is the right way to go about it, but saying "i have the right to read your texts whenever i feel like it" isn't.
Post by
Squishalot
I used the wrong term by explicitly sexual things, i meant sexual things in general. My parents do not need to know every word that i have said to my girlfriend, they have no reason to know that information, it serves no purpose to them. However, if your child started to fail out of school, and you thought they might have a drug or alcohol problem/might be suicidal, that is a reason to go through there texts. be aware that doing so may weaken the parent child bond. You keeping them safe can be seen by them as you being too involved in their lives, causing them to rebel against you.
I know what you're saying, which is why I've been saying - my kids will know I'm not going to intrude unless there's a good reason for it, so there's no need for them to stress out about me being too involved in their lives. That said, I'm not going to give up my ability to protect them when required by backing the statement:
I say no, parents shouldn't be able to read their kids text messages.
Does that work?
Post by
Ksero
Yeah, what i said in my first post was a general statement. I have no problem with it if you are basically saving your child's life by doing it.
OFF TOPIC: @FatalHeaven Could you maybe post 3 potential debate topics for the next day in your post were you ask the question for the day, each person could vote for what topic they would like to debate the most, that way the community could decide what would be debated on.
Post by
Magician22773
be aware that doing so may weaken the parent child bond
Know what else weakens that bond.....the child killing themself of going to jail.
Fair point, its all about how you approach the situation, and not going out and just saying "I read your texts, I know you have "x" problem." Reading their on a per problem basis (as you did) is the right way to go about it, but saying "i have the right to read your texts whenever i feel like it" isn't.
Yeah,
I have made sure to make it clear to my son that all the "security" is there for one reason, to help him when it comes to the temptation's of being a kid. Since he knows that he pretty much can, and will be caught if he does anything wrong, he has less pressure on himself to have to make tough decisions. If his friends want to sneak out of the house and go to a party that could potentially be bad, he just has to tell them that he has no way to not get caught. If he is offered pot, all he has to say is "my parents test me, I can't"
And the flipside is, I am able to allow him to do things that many of his friend have to either lie about, or can't do. He can go to parties, because I know exactly where they are. He gets to go hang out downtown because I know exactly where he is, and when he leaves. (Our downtown is pretty safe, up to about 11pm, then it becomes a college bar-fest area, so he has to leave at 10:30).
So he also knows that their are benefits to him from having an over-protective parent as well.
Post by
Squishalot
OFF TOPIC: @FatalHeaven Could you maybe post 3 potential debate topics for the next day in your post were you ask the question for the day, each person could vote for what topic they would like to debate the most, that way the community could decide what would be debated on.
Not sure that there's a point in that - people will debate the merits of the topics instead :P
Post by
Squishalot
Since he knows that he pretty much can, and will be caught if he does anything wrong, he has less pressure on himself to have to make tough decisions.
I actually disagree with that approach. I want my kids to actually know why not to make bad decisions, not just 'because Mum/Dad said so'.
Post by
960123
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Ksero
OFF TOPIC: @FatalHeaven Could you maybe post 3 potential debate topics for the next day in your post were you ask the question for the day, each person could vote for what topic they would like to debate the most, that way the community could decide what would be debated on.
Not sure that there's a point in that - people will debate the merits of the topics instead :P
I was thinking just a vote, and you couldn't say your stance on the debate in question either. Label the questions 1,2,3 and at the start of your post say
VOTE
:
(instert number here)
Post by
Squishalot
I reckon we'll get around to them anyway. She's doing a good job with the topics. Too much hassle with voting, I think, especially when people really won't care anyway, knowing this forum. You can say "you're not allowed to say your stance", and people still will. My issue is that people will start debating the merits of one question over another.
Post by
FatalHeaven
OFF TOPIC: @FatalHeaven Could you maybe post 3 potential debate topics for the next day in your post were you ask the question for the day, each person could vote for what topic they would like to debate the most, that way the community could decide what would be debated on.
I agree with Squish. However, as an alternative, I would be more than willing to accept any topics a user is inclined to email me. It would not be said who suggested the topic and as long as I feel a healthy, non-flame war debate can be had, it will be used. I am sending this from a Droid. I hope it comes out readable.
My email for those who wish to suggest a topic: ignyteyourlife@gmail.com
Post by
gamerunknown
Careful with that line of reasoning Kynnevie. I swore I would never drink up to about age 16 and didn't drink until I was 18. One of my younger sisters claimed smoking was disgusting and smokers were stupid at age 9 and now smokes frequently. People change.
As it happens, I'd have hated to feel like I was constantly under surveillance: especially with the key logger thing, even though I don't really do anything against my parents wishes. Would you want the authorities listening to your every phone call just to make sure you weren't doing anything illegal?
Reading texts doesn't trigger my guttural reaction against such things though, especially if they're on contract and the parent is paying.
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