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10.2.5
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Alliance and Horde antagonism
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Post by
pezz
So this is going to sound like a dumb question to the sort of person who spends a lot of time in this sub-forum, but I tend to be pretty lukewarm on Lore at best.
To be blunt, why are the Alliance and Horde still fighting? The bad blood during the RTS part of the franchise was mostly because the Horde was corrupted by the Burning Legion, right? But it seems like by now it ought to be generally understood that that's no longer the case. As far as I can tell they're still fighting because Blizzard needs an excuse for PvP.
Post by
Monday
Mainly? Because Garrosh and Varian are in charge.
Post by
Adamsm
Mainly? Because Garrosh and Varian are in charge.
As is Sylvanas, Genn, Tyrande, Baine, and all the rest. Plus, old hatreds run deep.
Post by
pezz
So it's just because by and large the faction leaders are unlikable jerks who can't get over irrelevant grudges.
That's an un-compelling but depressingly realistic reason for war.
Post by
Rankkor
Mainly? Because Garrosh and Varian are in charge.
coudn't had said it better myself.
There's plenty of people in BOTH factions who are tired of fighting and are willing to let grudges go....... sadly neither of them is in charge. The ones in charge are as stubborn as the elephant from that peanut comertial (the one where a kid smacks a baby elephant in the head, then 20 years later, that same kid now and adult visits the same circus, the elephant recognizes him and promptly smacks him on the head too)
Mainly? Because Garrosh and Varian are in charge.
As is Sylvanas, Genn, Tyrande,
Baine
, and all the rest. Plus, old hatreds run deep.
excuse moi, Baine is NOT an advocate of war and bloodshed, he's more among the side that want the war to be over, like velen is on the alliance.
So it's just because by and large the faction leaders are unlikable jerks who can't get over irrelevant grudges.
That's an un-compelling but depressingly realistic reason for war.
and yet this is the biggest reason why wars happen in the first place, because people in charge want it so and are unwilling to back down, so they drag everyone else under them along with it.
This is why I admire Thrall so much, just take a look at these 2 epic quotes of him
"How easily the mind can be turned to hate from a place of fear - an instinctive, natural, protective response. Instead of focusing on the things that unite us,
we focus on what divides us
."
"I can only pray to the ancestors that I am never placed in the same position as my father—torn between what I know in my heart is right and the defense of my people. It is why I continue to strive to uphold the tenuous peace between us and the Alliance.
Because few offenses and insults in this or any other world are sufficient to warrant the slaughter of children
."
Post by
pezz
So the premise of MoP is 'well the war is getting worse for no other reason than several people inexplicably in charge of large nations are all permanently on the rag.' Hopefully the mechanics and content will be solid, because that's not even a fraction as compelling as WotLK was.
Post by
Rankkor
welll, this
'well the war is getting worse for no other reason than several people inexplicably in charge of large nations are all permanently on the rag.'
is actually why it hasn't stopped, both sides keep fighting each other, each battle will leave dead on both factions, these dead will fuel the anger for both factions, and this anger will keep the war running.
The only way to end wars is to either have one side defeat the other and FORCE THEM to lay down their arms, or both sides willing to put aside grudges and reach a level of compromise.
the latter is easier said than done..... the former is even worst considering how tenacious and evened out both factions are when compared to each other.
Post by
249395
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Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Sylvanas Windrunner is why.
riiiiight, I'm pretty sure mister chin has absolutely nothing to do with it at all......
come on, man, dont start it, there's warmongers and jerks on BOTH sides of the fence, and dont try to cover this with "there's more jerks on the horde and less in the alliance" because for every nice character on one side, there's a jerk on the other.
this war is still going on because BOTH sides refuse to let old grudges go.
Post by
588688
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Post by
249395
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Sylvanas Windrunner is why.
riiiiight, I'm pretty sure mister chin has absolutely nothing to do with it at all......
come on, man, dont start it, there's warmongers and jerks on BOTH sides of the fence, and dont try to cover this with "there's more jerks on the horde and less in the alliance" because for every nice character on one side, there's a jerk on the other.
this war is still going on because BOTH sides refuse to let old grudges go.
Her more than anyone else.
nope. Varian's sheer hatred of orcs is nearly unrivaled in the entire planet.
again, dont try to tip this off to one faction more than the other, both have EQUAL blame on why dont the war stops.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
/sighs, there's no reasoning with you.
fine, the horde is more responsible than the alliance for the war.
there.
ya happy now?
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Mojoworkn
Old grudges never die young.
I think on both sides the anger is escalating. The more this war goes on, the more both sides take actions that are going to anger the other faction. So far in Cataclysm, we have Southshore, the druid place in Stonetalon, Camp Taurajo (sp?), The Barrens in general, Vashj'ir to an extent, Feralas, and probably countless other destructions/battles that are leading both factions to increase their hostilities.
The more the war goes on, the more horrific it is going to get.
So, if you think about it, there really
is
a lot each faction can claim they are fighting for.
Post by
Rankkor
/sighs, there's no reasoning with you.
fine, the horde is more responsible than the alliance for the war.
there.
ya happy now?
Yes, actually, horde has done more bad things than alliance has, and has more provoked this war. I'm simply pointing out that saying they're both equally to blame isn't true. I'm sure if we went and listed every bad thing the horde has done and every bad thing the alliance has done.....well, it wouldn't be 50/50, that's all I'm saying.
Not that it matters anyway, supposedly in mists of pandaria the pandaren are supposed to teach the alliance and horde to get along, which I like.
/facepalm.
"its pointless to teach a blind man what the colors look like"
Voltaire.
Post by
229054
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Post by
306612
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