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Where did Blizzard go wrong?
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Post by
25556
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
I would leave the XP bonus on heirlooms, but make the guild perk optional.
That way the poor little raiders will still get to be Blizzard's favorites.
Post by
877949
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
Well, I said 'for a starter'. Next I'd say take away XP for gathering. Then lower XP rewards for both quests and kills. The problem should be solvable between those three changes, properly tuned.
True I agree, but this would cause a storm of QQ from the players who like the super fast leveling speed now or those who can't bear to level past Outland and Northrend quickly enough in their opinion, citing "its too crappy compared to 1-60!".
When its actually just 1-2++ hours of real time...doh!
Hell, I don't even know why can I level to 65 anymore doing old 60 content (old pre-shattering world) and 75 using BC 70 content. Its not like its game breaking or anything like that
If they slowed leveling 1-60 down significantly and allowed you to jump past Outlands and Northrend until they get around to "fixing" them, I'd be inclined to level new toons. As it stands, I have 4 85's and 5 more 80+ toons. I don't care about leveling. The Old World Revamp was wasted time and effort that could have spent on things that I care about.
What about the things others care about?
Post by
Monday
Immaterial, Atik.
Post by
479137
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azrile
Agree with you here on this one. As to the leveling-too-fast problem, remove the bonus XP from Heirlooms for a starter. For compensation up their stats-per-level very slightly.
Not going to be enough, leveling whilst doing quests no lower than 5 levels below your current, with no heirlooms, no gathering skills and you can still level too fast
Its a irreversible effect of the old world revamp
As bad as it sounds, blizzard hurt themselves by making questing too efficient. They basically removed all travel time (dead time), which meant you were constantly completing quests and earning exp. I am definitely on the fence on this one, but when you pick up a quest, are killing the mobs 3 seconds later, and then autocomplete the quest.. it is another reason questing is so fast now. 100 quests in Hyjal was much much faster than doing 20 quests in the old barrens.
But I hold firm in my belief that the reason for the drop in subs is simply because we ended WOTLK with almost everyone running brain-dead 5 man dungeons every day.. and then a week after Cata launched, players were right back to doing it again. This is exactly the reason I quit. I just could not imagine logging in and running DM or SC every day for the next year to advance my character.
The truth is, if you want to see all the content in WOW, all you have to do is subscribe for 2 months. 1 month before an expansion and one month after. When the new expansion launches, I will resubscribe.. level my characters to 90 in 2 weeks, then spend 2 weeks running heroics. .. then I will take a year off.. resubscribe with a month before the next expansion. In that month, i will have more than enough time to see all the new quests and hop in the LFD and see the 5 new heroics (2 trolls, 3 deathwing).. and probably be fully decked out in at least decent gear for the launch of the next expansion? What will I miss? 3 tiers of minor gear upgrades which I can completely skip when I come back the last month.
Post by
Atik
Well, I said 'for a starter'. Next I'd say take away XP for gathering. Then lower XP rewards for both quests and kills. The problem should be solvable between those three changes, properly tuned.
True I agree, but this would cause a storm of QQ from the players who like the super fast leveling speed now or those who can't bear to level past Outland and Northrend quickly enough in their opinion, citing "its too crappy compared to 1-60!".
When its actually just 1-2++ hours of real time...doh!
Hell, I don't even know why can I level to 65 anymore doing old 60 content (old pre-shattering world) and 75 using BC 70 content. Its not like its game breaking or anything like that
If they slowed leveling 1-60 down significantly and allowed you to jump past Outlands and Northrend until they get around to "fixing" them, I'd be inclined to level new toons. As it stands, I have 4 85's and 5 more 80+ toons. I don't care about leveling. The Old World Revamp was wasted time and effort that could have spent on things that I care about.
What about the things others care about?
Such as? Or are you trying to say that you're one of the 10 people that like leveling toons to 60 over and over before abandoning them when you get to the "go to Outland, log out" part of the game?
Btw: they could have spent that time working on things like LFR back when they wasted it on Old World instead of having to rush to cobble it in now that subscriptions are jumping off of Dalaran at blazing speeds. Then maybe we wouldn't have had an entire expansion of the community eating itself (as much).
No, I level toons to 70 and reroll them, as I enjoy leveling more than raiding. I, personnally, wish they revamo had either been done BETTER or not been done at all. As it stands now, the revamp sucks.
Outland is still the best part of the game, by far.
Post by
Aeduera
Rose tinted spectacles get supplied with every long term account.
Quoting this again, because I played during Vanilla, got bored, and came back at the end of Wrath. I personally feel that the game is much better now than it was during Vanilla days. Cataclysm was a bit disappointing but nowhere near as bad as many make it out to be.
Post by
209609
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
qwertydood
But I hold firm in my belief that the reason for the drop in subs is simply because we ended WOTLK with almost everyone running brain-dead 5 man dungeons every day.. and then a week after Cata launched, players were right back to doing it again. This is exactly the reason I quit. I just could not imagine logging in and running DM or SC every day for the next year to advance my character.
You realize that running the same things over and over again to get better gear is how this game (and almost every MMO) works, right?
I think people are just bored with this game in general, and I think there is absolutely NO chance that WoW will see any significant increase in subscribers again, even when a new expansion comes out.
Another reason I'm not sure anyone has mentioned is the fact that Arthas died. Sure, one character can't affect THAT many people's will to play the game, but both BC and Wrath had characters that played large roles in Warcraft III and, most importantly, that have personalities. I'm sure anyone who cared about lore wanted to see whether Arthas would redeem himself or how he would end up dying, but I can't imagine many people are curious as to what will happen to Deathwing. First of all, a giant dragon bent on destroying the world really isn't that much of a draw, and the "epic" fight that Blizzard promises really isn't enough to get players to "see the expansion through."
Post by
25556
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I've been thinking this is a significant factor myself. Arthas we cared about. You either wanted to see him redeemed or you wanted to smash his face into the dust, but either way you cared how the story ended. Deathwing? /meh
Myself, I was glad that the Arthas story was finally over....but I hated how it ended(/sigh Just to be a set back when they need the Scourge 2.0). Deathwing has always been my favorite villain in the Warcraft universe.
Post by
Sweetscot
Agree with you here on this one. As to the leveling-too-fast problem, remove the bonus XP from Heirlooms
for a starter
. For compensation up their stats-per-level very slightly.
Not going to be enough, leveling whilst doing quests no lower than 5 levels below your current, with no heirlooms, no gathering skills and you can still level too fast
Its a irreversible effect of the old world revamp
Well, I said 'for a starter'. Next I'd say take away XP for gathering. Then lower XP rewards for both quests and kills. The problem should be solvable between those three changes, properly tuned.
I know I don't much care for the gathering xp myself, if you're running solo it's fine but when you try to level with another person you not only have to stay on the exact same quests as your partner you also have to synchronize professions to keep from having one outlevel the other (well beyond the little bit of synchronization you had to do before to make sure you weren't fighting for nodes, this is imo far more annoying)
Post by
106006
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
883244
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Trishi
An impartial post here from me.
People complain about leveling taking too long. Making a new alt for whatever reason, was a huge time investment. People might say it only takes a week, but those who make this claim use time spent, not actual days, meaning instead of 7 days, it takes 168 hours, which, for someone with a fulltime job, will take FAR more than a week. You would be lucky to have it done in a month.
So, consequentially, Blizzard made it easier. Result: People complain it is too easy.
People complain about raids being too restricted, and only for the select few percent of the whole who gets to see them. This especially held true in Vanilla and BC, where maybe 5 %, 10 % at best, ever was in a raid that actually downed a boss.
Blizzard makes it easier to gear. Result: People complain gearing is too easy.
This whole game have turned into a pure lose/lose situation for Blizzard. They have a myriad of things they could do to change the game, and no matter what they choose, people will dislike it. Even doing nothing will make people dislike it. There's nothing they can do to satisfy 10 million+ subscribers. So they do the most intelligent thing a business can do: They focus on the group of customers that can provide the greatest income for them.
Sadly for a place like Wowhead, most of us aren't part of their focus group. This means that most of the people here will dislike changes that Blizzard makes.
As a more personal note, I find the easier raid setting awesome. I didn't try raiding till late Wrath, and only do it very casually in Cataclysm. So making it more accessible is a huge plus for me. As for leveling, I find it far more fun to go more sequentially through a zone, rather than getting 50 completely unrelated quests to complete. The moments I hated the most pre-cata was when I suddenly sat in a random quest zone with absolutely no quests, and no pointers at all on where to go. For a lowbie first-timer, this was ridiculous. When you know nothing of external sites like Wowhead, Wowwiki, Wowpedia, or whatever, you will be lost in a huge world, with little knowledge of where to go now. That wasn't fun. It originally made me unsub after the free month, before I gave it another shot 4 month later with a couple of friends.
Being stuck in Arathi Highlands, coming from Undercity, heading further down into Wetlands, only to find low-level mobs and quests is... disappointing. Game's shouldn't require guides or external help to get through, baring obligatory group quests in all MMORPGs. The moment you explicitly
need
to look something up on the internet, or ask someone for advise on it, the game is flawed. Imagine if Legend of Zelda were made like this. I can
assure
you it's scores wouldn't even be 7/10. For this reason, I love what Blizzard have done, even if some of the changes were outright silly.
Post by
25556
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Trishi
Valid point. They went too far with the speed of leveling, and raiding lockouts are ridiculous, albeit not really related to the masses who keep complaining that gearing is too easy, and epics are too common. You're still right, of course.
It isn't that Blizzard is incapable of fixing things to players' satisfaction, its that their solutions seem to always be incomplete these days. They make broad changes in how the game works, and then they don't listen to feedback about how to make it better.
They are like designers who seem to be utterly convinced that their design philosophy is the only way to go and everybody else can like it or leave. That is fine for an artist, unconcerned with commercial success, but if you want to keep up 12 million subs, and seek additional growth in the future, you have to be a bit more pragmatic.
This is a more complicated issue than just "listening to feedback". They have about 12 million subscribers. The way you structure your sentences make it sound as if you expect all 12 million people to share the exact same idea of what a satisfactory solution would be. It would honestly surprise me if they didn't have at least 5 different large groups of people with different ideas on how to reach a "satisfactory" level of gameplay.
I'm happy with some of the changes, but dislike quite a few of them as well. But I can accept that I'm not the bulk of Blizzard's income, and thus accept that they have to adhere to the people that produces the best result. So just because the majority of Wowhead says one thing, it isn't nessesarily the best move Blizzard could make. It's not a charming thought, because it essentially makes my opinion meaningless, but when I try to picture it from their PoV, I can't really say I would have done differently. You can't please everybody, so pleasing as many as possible is generally what you should strive for - And Blizzard seems to be doing just that. Whether that's a good thing or not is a whole other discussion.
I'm not sure I can explain it any better, but perhaps someone else can. My English isn't exactly top grade,
and
I'm tired. Not really helping :/
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